96. How a Baggage Handler Became One of San Antonio’s Most Iconic Artists

[00:00:00] Bob Rivard: Welcome to big city, small town, the weekly podcast, all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Rivard. This week's guest is San Antonio artist, Gary Sweeney, who actually is a very prominent and popular figure often seen and heard to the delight of audiences in the city's many cultural spaces.

[00:00:22] Bob Rivard: He's the master of deploying humor and text into his original artworks often enough to deliver a message addressing inequality, social injustice. And bad public policy, but his medium is humor, not anger. Sweeney works in a range of mediums, painting, sculpture, installations, video. He has a master's in fine arts from the University of California.

[00:00:45] Bob Rivard: Realized early on. Fame and fortune would not come easily. Gary Sweeney, welcome to big city, small town.

[00:00:52] Gary Sweeney: Thank you, Robert. I have to add one little correction there. I never got my master's. I didn't get into grad school. You didn't? [00:01:00] No, I didn't get into grad school. Did I read

[00:01:01] Bob Rivard: an inflated resume somewhere online?

[00:01:03] Gary Sweeney: It wasn't inflated by me because I shouldn't have gotten into grad school. I was not a very disciplined student in. even in college, but I, uh, uh, and I only applied to, uh, UC Irvine, which is where I went to college. And, uh, but, uh, I was kind of shocked that I didn't have, I didn't have a work ethic and discipline.

[00:01:23] Gary Sweeney: I was a very good surfer, but I didn't have, I didn't have my work ethic until later on in life. So I was, I was not a quick study. Well,

[00:01:31] Bob Rivard: we're going to classify you now, Gary, as a lifelong learner who's making up for lost time after a, you know, a dismal academic start. It wasn't

[00:01:40] Gary Sweeney: quite dismal. Oh, actually it was dismal because, um, I, I speak to a lot of, uh, classes and organizations and stuff and I show my artwork and, uh, I, I spoke to, uh, they have a convention here with all the art teachers in Texas.

[00:01:55] Gary Sweeney: That's

[00:01:55] Bob Rivard: right, every year. Yeah,

[00:01:56] Gary Sweeney: it filled the convention. I was the keynote speaker. And my third [00:02:00] slide, or my third image was, uh, I said, uh, I hate to toot my own horn, but I only got one D in high school, and it was in art. And I showed my report card, and I said, and I deserved it. I said, I, I don't want you to think I was some.

[00:02:17] Gary Sweeney: Prodigy that my teacher didn't understand I was, I, I should have gotten a D and I think it, I think it was a D plus and that was a gift, but, uh, um, so like I said, a slow study, slow learner.

[00:02:32] Bob Rivard: Well, before you came in, you mentioned the fact that you were a Southern California surfer growing up and I showed our team here a video of you skateboarding, uh, your skateboarding prowess, which is considerable.

[00:02:44] Bob Rivard: Uh, that also points to your Southern California roots and that video was for an introduction, which you've done many introductions for to Pecha Kucha, San Antonio. And, um, I guess you're kind of my stereotype of a Southern California, Gary, [00:03:00] which I realized later on, I told you is based almost entirely on Beach Boy songs I heard growing up and you seem to be that guy.

[00:03:07] Gary Sweeney: Well, I wasn't the only one. This was, uh, if you want to do sweeping generalizations, I. Most of the people I hung out with were looked like me and acted like me and I think that the Southern California atmosphere in the 50s and 60s was so conducive to New ideas and fun and You know, those Beach Boys songs were like that for a reason with Cars, and it was very carefree.

[00:03:38] Gary Sweeney: And when I get together with my friends, we just, I don't live in the past, but we do relive, like, how incredibly privileged our life was. It wasn't privileged, it was very middle class, but it was very carefree.

[00:03:54] Bob Rivard: Well, I think it also engendered creativity. And there's a reason why so many [00:04:00] things are born in California and then come to the rest of the country later.

[00:04:04] Gary Sweeney: Exactly. Exactly. I was skateboarding in 1960 with, with metal wheels. So, um, uh, and on all of the art scene, there was, uh, uh, very colorful stuff. Instead of serious academic things, it was the artists were doing, you know, you're free to experiment. And, and, uh, and Have fun with stuff.

[00:04:27] Bob Rivard: Well, one of the things that I've always admired about you, besides your great sense of humor, uh, is that, like me, you had a number of, uh, unusual jobs that are on your resume and your background.

[00:04:37] Bob Rivard: And, um, before we talk about your art, we ought to talk about all the ways that you've paid the bills over the years. And, of course, the main one was, for three decades, you were a baggage handler for United and Continental, I think, airlines. And, and, and you met your wife that way. She was a flight attendant and you've availed yourself of the opportunity to fly all over the [00:05:00] world over and over again on the cheap, which, uh, that's, that's a great perk.

[00:05:04] Bob Rivard: And, and, uh, plus you had, unlike a lot of artists who were bartending or waiting tables or doing odd jobs. You made a living with a career while you pursued your art.

[00:05:16] Gary Sweeney: Well, like so much of my life, that was an accidental, accidental path because I got out of art school and we had pretty famous artists. We had, uh, I had James Turrell as a sculpture professor and they would hire these.

[00:05:31] Gary Sweeney: really famous artists, and we, we thought we were, you know, the cutting edge of the world. And so when I got out of college, we all thought, well, this is going to be easy. Look at all these, you know, look at all these famous people. And I was shocked when the art world didn't embrace me and beat a path to my door.

[00:05:48] Gary Sweeney: I've, so for five years, I, uh, I just had jobs and I tell students, I said, every single job I've ever had in my life was given to [00:06:00] me by friends. I said, it's, it's, it's. That's a very secret formula for success. You get, you hang around with people that are successful and you, uh, and so I, um, yeah, that's how I, I got a job at, uh, Hugh Hefner's house.

[00:06:17] Gary Sweeney: I knew one of the cooks there. Uh, you

[00:06:18] Bob Rivard: mean Hefner's Playboy Mansion?

[00:06:20] Gary Sweeney: His Playboy mansion in, yes, in, in, uh, Western. It was right behind UCLA. Okay. So it was in Holby Hills. Actually,

[00:06:27] Bob Rivard: I wanna, I wanna say, tell me, correct me if I'm wrong, but your job was quote. Butler.

[00:06:32] Gary Sweeney: It was Butler, but I mostly worked parties and they had a lot of parties.

[00:06:35] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, um, how old were you? Uh, I think it was 1977. So I would say well before that I, I framed some houses. In fact, I framed some houses in the Hollywood Hills right above the Sunset Strip and these were custom homes and they were big beautiful Homes, you know, the nicest homes of the day. I remember they were, they were going to sell for 450, [00:07:00] 000, which we thought was just like, holy smokes, you know, and I never worked harder in my life.

[00:07:04] Gary Sweeney: And after we got through framing them, then we went on to, uh, we were framing a house in Venice Beach, and one of those fires that comes through the Hollywood Hills came through and burnt 22 houses. And ours was one of them. And we went back there and there was Uh, this barren landscape with a, a, a foundation and a melted circular staircase and, uh, hundreds of thousands of nails.

[00:07:27] Gary Sweeney: And he says, you know, and my boss said, you want to, you want to build it again? And I said, no, I don't want to build this again. So, um, I was out of work one day and, um, A buddy of mine called up and said, Hey, do you want to be a baggage handler? And I said, to tell you the truth, Mike, this is another Mike. I said, Mike, um, on the bingo card of the careers I had set up for myself, that wasn't on it.

[00:07:56] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, uh, I wasn't saying no, but I said, I have [00:08:00] basically never thought of being a baggage handler. He goes, well, you can. You can fly to Hawaii for free. And I said, well, yeah, and I am out of work. So I think I will do that. And I don't know how long I thought I was going to do it. But 35 years later, I could have not mapped out a better adult job for myself.

[00:08:17] Gary Sweeney: Because for the first five years, I didn't have any success as an artist, and so I could, we could pick up hours. Everyone knows how to do everything on the ramp, you know, we know how to drive around airplanes. And so if somebody, if you wanted to work for me, all we had to do is like fill out this card and you could work for me.

[00:08:33] Gary Sweeney: And we were only required to work like two days a week. And that was the minimum, you know, they had, you know, they had to set up. And then they didn't even care. They just, as long as somebody showed up for you and they had opposable thumbs, then they would, you know, you could, they could work for you. And so I was the one picking up all the hours for people because I was broke.

[00:08:52] Gary Sweeney: And, um, Then I started getting some success as a, uh, as an artist. I started getting some public art [00:09:00] commissions and stuff. So, after five years, I started getting some success. And, and, uh, then by the end of my career, I was only working two days a week. And, uh, it was just this perfect job. And, and I tell students, you don't think about that when you're in art school.

[00:09:15] Gary Sweeney: You don't think about 401Ks. You don't think about paid sick days. You know, your dream You dream of being a successful artist, it's like, I'm just going to be in my studio. It's like, well, what are you going to do about medicals? Like, you know, well, I don't know. I don't know, we're just going to be, I'm going to sell so much artwork, I'm going to be rich and famous.

[00:09:32] Gary Sweeney: But, um, so, like I said, I could not have plotted out a better job for myself. Well, you must

[00:09:38] Bob Rivard: have

[00:09:38] Gary Sweeney: loved to travel. Oh, absolutely. Do you have any idea how

[00:09:42] Bob Rivard: many countries you've been to?

[00:09:43] Gary Sweeney: I think I've been to, um, I've been to 65, I think. Wow. I think I wrote it down one day. And my wife, my wife actually grew up part time in Europe, and her parents took her all over, so she's probably done like 75.

[00:09:58] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, uh, [00:10:00] I just never get tired of it. When I retired, I retired with passes, and so sometimes when I wake up here, I go, why am I not On the islet of Capri or something. Why am I not traveling?

[00:10:14] Bob Rivard: I want you to tell, um, people about what brought you to San Antonio in 1994.

[00:10:19] Bob Rivard: I don't know exactly, uh, where you were at the time when you came, but I found out later that on your, in your career working for the airlines that included a time in, in Denver.

[00:10:31] Gary Sweeney: Yeah.

[00:10:31] Bob Rivard: And I have, uh, on multiple occasions. Compared, uh, things in Denver to San Antonio, uh, at the Rivard report, because I wanted us to emulate some of their public transit.

[00:10:44] Bob Rivard: Um, I thought their public transit from their airport, which is much farther away from the center city is amazing. And we were talking about the very large sculpture of the blue horse that's outside Denver. Uh, and, and unfortunately, the one that killed the artist. Yeah, [00:11:00] no, that's really unfortunate. But I then told you that I saw this amazingly amusing.

[00:11:05] Bob Rivard: Large map of the United States inside the Denver airport. And I couldn't forget it because when I looked to see if San Antonio was on it, all it had was the toilet seat museum, which was two blocks from my house, uh, where, where our children grew up. And I thought, how did they know about that? And the whole map was kind of humorous like that.

[00:11:25] Bob Rivard: And you just listened to me and said, yeah, that, that was my public art. While I was a baggage handler there, I, I entered into the competition for the public art at the airport and was, was commissioned.

[00:11:35] Gary Sweeney: Well, that, that was my third piece of public art. I had done two smaller pieces. And my work actually, prior to that, had to deal with family vacations.

[00:11:45] Gary Sweeney: And I took my father's photographs and blew them up and hand titted them and said funny things about them and stuff. So my whole art thing was travel and humor. And they specifically wanted something by the baggage claim [00:12:00] area that would take people's minds off of family vacations. Waiting, the stress of waiting for their luggage and had to do with travel and so I checked all the boxes and I was up against, I was a finalist, there was five like blue chip household name artists that were, and then me, there was four and then me, and, uh, I just went in there and completely oversold myself.

[00:12:24] Gary Sweeney: I said, look, I'm perfect for this. This is my artwork. Look at this. It's, it's, it's fun. It's what you want. It's exactly what you want. Totally, totally overdid it. And, uh, and I got it over and it was catapulted my career because it was up until then, I think the most I'd ever gotten for a piece of 10, 000, which at the time was 10 million.

[00:12:46] Gary Sweeney: I just thought, Oh, I made it. You know, if I could do this every year, and then that that was that had a budget of 100, 000, which is ridiculous. I mean, that was unheard of. And I went in there [00:13:00] and they said, Yeah, this is great. We want you to do it. So I really threw myself into it. And for two years, um, I had an idea of what I wanted to do.

[00:13:08] Gary Sweeney: And for two years, we drove around to the Barbie doll Hall of Fame and, um, And, uh, it's, uh, San Jose, California. And we went, there's a barbed wire museum in Kansas. Anyway, there's like 300 of those things on those maps. I just, I just started doing these, this research and I found the most obscure museums.

[00:13:27] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, that was Barney Smith's Toilet Seat Art Museum was there. And there was the beer can house in Houston. And, uh, uh, there was a statue to the killer bees down and down in the border of Mexico. Anyway, I. I, uh, we, Janet and I would fly into, it was two years in the making, so we would fly into, say, Ohio, and we would take pictures of the world of rubber in Akron, Ohio.

[00:13:53] Gary Sweeney: Then we would go to this woman's house who had 73, 000 buttons arranged in geometric patterns on her wall. [00:14:00] And, um, so we would go into these little places, and it was just the best two years of our life. We just, it was just so much fun. And I learned a lot from doing that, but that was That was, and I got a, uh, I actually had a travel show on PBS as a result of that where we went around to these places.

[00:14:18] Gary Sweeney: Is that right? Yeah, it was called Sweeney's America, and I hope you can't pull it up because I was not good. I, I just can't watch it. I was a very amateurish host, but we had a lot of fun, and we would go. In Kansas, there was the world's largest furball that they got out of a cow that was about the size of like what was medicine balls.

[00:14:37] Gary Sweeney: And so we just had a blast and, and I got a lot of recognition for that. In fact, they had a, USA Today had a reader's poll on their favorite public art, airport public art. And, uh, and it was by the airports and Denver airport one got the most votes and on the front page of [00:15:00] the USA Today was my map and it was really cool.

[00:15:03] Gary Sweeney: And I want to say though that The artwork in San Francisco is much better than Denver, but they had like Terry Allen. They have really, they spent a lot of money on the artwork there.

[00:15:13] Bob Rivard: Well, the artwork that you did in Denver is titled America. Why I love her. Yeah. And what year was that completed? Ninety four.

[00:15:20] Bob Rivard: So. That is 30 years old. It's still there.

[00:15:23] Gary Sweeney: Yeah. Oh, it's no, it's permanent. It's, that's, that's locked in. And, um, it's actually held up really well.

[00:15:31] Bob Rivard: So tell us some more stories about, um, other art pieces that you've done. Um, the battle of the San Antonio river.

[00:15:39] Gary Sweeney: That was okay. That's one of my favorite.

[00:15:43] Bob Rivard: We're from the Battle of the Alamo City.

[00:15:45] Gary Sweeney: Yeah.

[00:15:45] Bob Rivard: You turn that into the Battle of the San Antonio River. Well,

[00:15:48] Gary Sweeney: the San Antonio River Authority had an opportunity to make these benches along the And they asked these artists, uh, I think they asked six [00:16:00] artists to submit these proposals and, uh, Vincent Valdez has one, Riley Robinson has one, and they're, they're benches along the San Antonio River.

[00:16:08] Gary Sweeney: And when I was growing up, my parents used to, uh, we traveled a lot in our, uh, Van and we drove all over the United States So that's where my travel bug probably came from but we used to go to Civil War battlefields because I was a Civil War buff And so we would go to like say Gettysburg and there would be this panel Overlooking the battlefield and it would explain to you how the battle unfolded and what happened day one this happened And there was all these arrows and illustrations and then and then pickets charge was over here and so I just took that idea, and I turned it into the Battle of the San Antonio River, and uh, I Which didn't exist.

[00:16:44] Gary Sweeney: Which didn't exist. No, and well, here's how stupid it was. It was, I, I started out, I just took basically all of the major naval battles in history and threw them all together. So I had the Carthaginians coming up from the Gulf, and then I had the, [00:17:00] um, the, the, the Dutch fleet coming down, and they're meeting, and of course, you know, You know how wide the river is there.

[00:17:08] Gary Sweeney: So, from a distance, from me to you, it looks legit. It's like, well, let's go take a look at this. And then when you start reading it, it's just absolutely absurd. And, uh, uh, and then just when it looks like, and then the Dutch, and then the Spanish Armada comes down. And then, uh, these battles unfold and there's arrows and stuff.

[00:17:25] Gary Sweeney: And, and, uh, I basically, like I said, the Russian fleet comes in. And, and just when it looks like one side is winning, winning. Winning, the German U boats come up and start sinking them, and then the Midway comes down and starts sinking the U boats, and, uh, it all ends up in a draw, and, uh, I was laughing like a maniac while I was making it, and it's stillit's in the top three, my favorite pieces of artwork, and it got accepted.

[00:17:50] Gary Sweeney: And there were 17 people on the panel, and they said it's the only one that unanimously got accepted. Everyone loved it. They just They just thought it was great. [00:18:00] And um, and then it started making its way up the ladder of the people with the, the county people and stuff. And they just said, don't ever darken our doorstep again.

[00:18:12] Gary Sweeney: Yeah. This is not no, but hell no, this is never going to be I mean, they were that adamant about it. And so I, um, so David Rubin of the San Antonio Museum of Art said, well, we have, we have the museum reach and I'll just run it past the acquisitions committee and, um, and we'll put it right by the pearl overlooking the river.

[00:18:37] Gary Sweeney: And so the acquisitions committee said, no, we don't want that. And so then. And I just said, this has to find a home. I'm, I'm still obsessed with it. It's been so long. It had been, you

[00:18:49] Bob Rivard: had made it.

[00:18:50] Gary Sweeney: No, I had only made a mock up of it, but the pieces out at the airport, those panels that make fun of San Antonio, they were made by the [00:19:00] company up in Tumwater, Washington, that actually makes those, uh, National Park panels.

[00:19:05] Gary Sweeney: So they were on board. I, I, I had them, they were all ready to go. They wanted to work, make that in the, and it was going to be on us, you know. Absolutely, uh, uh, metal proof, weather proof panel. And anyway, so they were, they were, kept calling me going, when, when do we get to do this? And so, I was commissioned to do something with Ken Little and the art guys up at, uh, Lady Bird Lake when they built that pier that goes out there.

[00:19:32] Gary Sweeney: And this was gonna go along, and I just changed it. This is downtown

[00:19:35] Bob Rivard: Austin.

[00:19:36] Gary Sweeney: This is on the lake in Austin. And, and I just called it. the Battle of Lady Bird Lake and just changed it around. And that, for a year, it was a green light and everyone was really eager. And the only hurdle I had to do was, uh, the last hurdle was taking it to City Hall.

[00:19:53] Gary Sweeney: And I have never been so hated in all my life. This, this one woman, if her eyes had been [00:20:00] laser beams, she, she said, and the, I can laugh about it now. I was really upset at the time. But, um, this woman said, Mr. Sweeney. We just don't think your sense of humor is appropriate for the city of Austin. And I said, I said, I did one of those Scooby Doo things like, What?

[00:20:17] Gary Sweeney: What? What? Everyone's going. And I said, and we were sitting in City Hall. And I said, I said, okay, right behind me in City Hall is a bronze statue of the most famous pot smoker in the world. And you dedicated it on 420. And. You don't think Mike sets a humor is appropriate and she, oh, she was having none of it.

[00:20:39] Gary Sweeney: She, God, she hated me. And, and, uh, like I said, I was upset when I was driving home, but it makes such a funny story because Austin of all places and then San Antonio lets me do those billboards along the parking garage that actually make fun of San Antonio.

[00:20:54] Bob Rivard: Talk about those a little bit for people that haven't seen them.

[00:20:56] Gary Sweeney: Well, they, um. They have a parking garage, and [00:21:00] it's since been obscured by another building in front. But before, there was a parking garage, and they had money for public art, and they, uh, asked me to make these proposals. And, um, I made these things that look like old fashioned billboards that are promoting San Antonio, and there's eight of them, and they make fun of San Antonio.

[00:21:19] Gary Sweeney: And I wasI told the art committee there, I said, you have to go to bat for me, because, you know. I've been burned a couple times. I said, they're not going to like it. I just, you have to, you have to convince them that this is good. And so the first one is a old postcard of the San Antonio airport, uh, with these old cars from the fifties and the, and the old terminal and a plane taking off.

[00:21:42] Gary Sweeney: And it's very vintage. And, uh, it says, uh, San Antonio International Airport. And then in the starburst, it says, Now open year round. And so the second one says, uh, is a vintage, uh, advertisement for, uh, a gas [00:22:00] company from like a magazine from the 30s. And it's this, this couple that are looking at a map and the, the gas, the gas station attendant is pointing it out.

[00:22:08] Gary Sweeney: And behind them is a signpost that says, uh, Bernie and, um. Oh, Christ, what are some of those, uh, New Braunfels, and, uh, uh, what are those other, what else do they mispronounce up there? Anyway, uh, it's all these hill country, says Hill Country, Texas, we have dozens of towns you can't pronounce. And, uh, uh, the third one is, uh, anyway, they, they all make fun of San Antonio.

[00:22:33] Gary Sweeney: And so when I went to present it to them, I was kind of braced for the same response, and they loved it. This, so San Antonio was just, We're better at laughing at ourselves. They were over the moon. They were going, We can put these on mugs. We can put these on t shirts. And I'm going, Wow, this is very good.

[00:22:50] Gary Sweeney: I was, my hat's off to them for, for being so cool. And, uh, they were made by that company. And they're, they're very weatherproof. They're, they're made with the same [00:23:00] material, old gas station size. It's ceramic baked enamel. And, um, and okay, the last one is, uh, uh, a picture of the, the hemisphere. And it says, uh, hemis, uh, San Antonio hemisphere.

[00:23:14] Gary Sweeney: And it's a drawing that was on the pamphlet. And, uh, it says, uh, hemisphere 68. And then in the star verse, it says you're way too late. So in case somebody wanted to know, and then they had one that said it's a, like a, it's a, like a old. It's like an old ad for, like, uh, a ski place in Switzerland. And maybe from the 50s or something.

[00:23:37] Gary Sweeney: And it says, Winter Wonderland, San Antonio, Texas. And these people are skiing, and they're flying off these mountains and stuff. And when we had that snowpocalypse, it was covered in snow. And, uh The social media just went crazy over it because it was, you know, it was supposed to be a spoof, but it was actually covered in snow.

[00:23:56] Gary Sweeney: Well, where

[00:23:56] Bob Rivard: can people today see Gary Sweeney art in, [00:24:00] in the San Antonio public arena?

[00:24:03] Gary Sweeney: Um, just about anywhere.

[00:24:07] Bob Rivard: You have the outdoor mural at the San Antonio Art Museum.

[00:24:10] Gary Sweeney: I have the, uh, made from discarded signs, uh, Confluence Park has benches that I designed for their pollinator garden and all the benches there that have designs in them are, were made by me.

[00:24:21] Gary Sweeney: Uh, there's a, uh, Do

[00:24:23] Bob Rivard: those have some subtle or not so subtle messages? No,

[00:24:27] Gary Sweeney: no, but they, no, they're kind of sweet. And, uh, there's a pollinator garden and, and at first I was making these pretty realistic Wasp and bats and stuff and it was, they're kind of scary looking. So I made them look like, uh, like a five year old drew them.

[00:24:43] Gary Sweeney: So they're, they're real innocuous. And, uh, and there's on the Riverwalk, they have a sculpture garden that goes along the other side of the street from the convention center where they have these sculptures. And I, I made a A sign for [00:25:00] the Riverwalk out of discarded signs that tells you about the San Antonio Riverwalk Sculpture Garden.

[00:25:07] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, there's a parking garage downtown on Travis Street that, uh, I designed the floor for. It's a terrazzo floor, and it has these big shoe prints that go from the elevator, and they guide you outside, and they lead you down towards the Riverwalk. That's what they wanted to do. They wanted to kind of do this wayfinder for ribbon.

[00:25:29] Gary Sweeney: Each level has a different shoe like the first level is my wingtips and their wingtips and the second level is like a Red sneaker so you can identify what level they are on by what shoe It's on the level.

[00:25:43] Bob Rivard: So you don't strike me Gary is a guy that wears wingtips.

[00:25:47] Gary Sweeney: I don't. Also, if you go to the convention center upstairs is a gigantic 75 foot long piece of artwork that I did.

[00:25:58] Gary Sweeney: Uh, 20 [00:26:00] years ago, and, uh, I, I, I took discarded signs and I was going to reproduce. I knew I was gonna fail at this, but my proposal that I was gonna reproduce an entire book out of discarded signs, and it took me four years to collect the first two paragraphs. And, uh, I knew it was, I, it was one that I, it was a project that I knew was gonna fail, and I kinda liked that idea that I was just gonna.

[00:26:25] Gary Sweeney: do this ridiculously hard Sisyphean thing and, and, and, and, and fail at it miserably. But so for four years, I collected the first two paragraphs and it was an old, really boring history book, uh, that I had to read in 10th grade and, uh, by Will and Ariel Durant called The Story of Civilization. And at first I thought, well, I'm going to do a book.

[00:26:48] Gary Sweeney: And then I thought, well, if I do like, I don't know, the Bible or Moby Dick or anything that was lofty or anything that it would kind of lose its. People would get wrapped up more in that sort of thing. So I wanted to make [00:27:00] something sort of neutral. And, um, it showed 25 years, maybe 20, 23 years ago, there was a, there was a gallery in Houston that was big enough to take it.

[00:27:13] Gary Sweeney: Uh, to display it and so I displayed it there and then for 20 years, it took up all my wife's storage in the garage. All of these signs, hundreds of signs. What do you

[00:27:24] Bob Rivard: mean your wife's storage?

[00:27:25] Gary Sweeney: Well, it was our storage, but she's, she's the one that that's her territory. She does the outside of the house.

[00:27:31] Gary Sweeney: She's really good about that. And if she wouldn't have it any other way, I would screw it up. But anyway, it was, it was all the storage there. And And we, we have purged our, you know, like, you know, you do spring cleaning and stuff. And she kept going, Gary, this was really nice, you know, 20 years ago. Do you mind if I have my garage back?

[00:27:50] Gary Sweeney: Can we just get rid of it? I said, no. And I said, facetiously, I said, somebody's going to buy it. She goes, what, for the back of their couch? It's 75 feet long by 14. [00:28:00] Nobody's going to buy it. Give me my garage back. And so we went back and forth like this. And then Henry From the city. Well, what happened was it was in a book and, uh, Cheryl Scully saw it.

[00:28:14] Gary Sweeney: 'cause this guy was reading it at his desk. She, she looked at it, she goes, well, what's that? He goes, it's uh, it's a local artist and he did this piece. She goes, I want that for the convention center. And so they called me up. They said, Hey, Gary. Do you still have the story of civilization? And I put it on speakerphone.

[00:28:30] Gary Sweeney: I said, by the way, I'm sitting there, I said, Hey, can you say that again? Harry, do you still have that story of civilization? I said, yeah, I do. And she goes, Cheryl Scully wants it for the convention center. And I'm going, waving my arms at her. And, uh, uh. So that was like a great phone call. And then she says, um, she says, well, how, how much do you want for it?

[00:28:54] Gary Sweeney: This is cheesy to talk about, but anyway, um, she said, how much do you want for it? And Janet goes, tell him we'll pay him a [00:29:00] thousand dollars to come and take it away. Excuse me, Henry, shut up, shut, shut up. So that's at the convention center and that's permanent too. So I, I've been very, in fact, when I get public art commissions these days from the city, I, I kind of say to myself, don't you have enough of my work?

[00:29:17] Gary Sweeney: You know, are people, aren't people complaining about, you know, can you give some other artists a chance? I don't want to tell them that because they're fun to work with. And, uh, but I've been, I've, I've done stuff in, uh, Oh, Memphis and I've done stuff in, uh, Los Angeles and I've done stuff in Charlotte, North Carolina.

[00:29:35] Gary Sweeney: And so, Um, I've been very lucky to be able to do public art. Because that's, for an artist, that's, that is right, the only way to make money, your gallery. If you, you know, you used to think a gallery success would be great. Well, you pay galleries 50%, and it's not the best way to make money.

[00:29:55] Bob Rivard: Well, you've turned out to be that artist that you dreamed of when you got out of school, which is,

[00:29:59] Gary Sweeney: [00:30:00] Yeah, I don't know what I, I don't know what I dreamed of, but, uh, it's, yeah, it's definitely, I'm, and I'm, can't stress enough how grateful I am for the, but I think that, uh, people find my work really funny and, uh, if, until they don't, unless they don't.

[00:30:18] Gary Sweeney: And, but I've, I've been able to, uh, I, I used to do really serious, serious artwork. I called them term paper art because at the time, uh, when I first got out of college, it was real serious things. I was dealing with Moby Dick and Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and all these lofty, uh, subject matters. And, uh, one day I just saw my father's photographs and I said, you know, I'm going to have some fun with this.

[00:30:43] Gary Sweeney: And so it's still humorous, still a little bit of a tricky thing, but in fact, I just had a. Pecha Kucha talk, um, and it was entitled Not Everyone Likes My Sense of Humor, and it was all of the [00:31:00] Projects that I have been rejected from and fired from and I had, I got a whole talk out of it. And the pattern is still the same.

[00:31:09] Gary Sweeney: I get hired for these jobs and Everyone likes it and then it gets to the people that have control over things and they go no like that And there's so many and there's now I just I think the funny the stories are really funny because I don't And the host of Pecha Kucha asked me, Well, why do you make these things that people reject?

[00:31:31] Gary Sweeney: And I said, I, number one, I don't. They, they, I have had success with this. And number two, one of the reasons is, I had a job that I didn't have to rely on my artwork. And that's kind of a secret that I tell students. I said, I could try things and fail, and I'm a big proponent of failure, trying new things and failing, and I do that enough that I could make a whole talk out of it.

[00:31:59] Bob Rivard: Well, I [00:32:00] am, I'm curious about the work that goes into making one of your pieces of art. The, uh, if we take the mural at the San Antonio Art Museum, and I think the, the That it's it's text that says, uh, the work of an artist or the challenge of an artist is to create mystery.

[00:32:15] Gary Sweeney: Yeah.

[00:32:16] Bob Rivard: And I didn't realize, although every letter is typographically different than all the other letters, I didn't realize those were found signs that you were extracting those letters from.

[00:32:28] Gary Sweeney: Yeah.

[00:32:28] Bob Rivard: And do you like run around garbage dumps and, uh, construction sites and other places and look for other people's

[00:32:35] Gary Sweeney: throwaways?

[00:32:36] Bob Rivard: Well,

[00:32:37] Gary Sweeney: I, um, that's funny you said that. Are

[00:32:39] Bob Rivard: you, are you a sign thief?

[00:32:40] Gary Sweeney: I, well, um, let me tell you how I get some of those signs. At first I would go to sign companies and they usually had a boneyard in the back where I could pick over some signs, but They, and they would charge me and stuff, and, but I used to paint signs, and one of the ways I got these signs is that [00:33:00] I would, I would see like an old sign at a, like a car place, uh, like a, uh, mechanics place, and I would see an old hand painted sign, and I would, I would go home and I would paint a really nice sign and, uh, like a professional sign, a professional sign painter would do with, you know, with waterproof materials and stuff.

[00:33:21] Gary Sweeney: And I would go up to the guy and I'd say, Hey, listen, I, um, I want to, I have this sign for you. And it would say the name of his stuff. And I said, I would like to give you this sign. If you give me the old sign. And they go, why would you do that? And, uh, then I'd have to explain. At first I explained. One time I made the mistake of explaining it was an art piece.

[00:33:41] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, and the guy goes, art? Art? Hey, Jim, did you know we do art? Hey, that's, you know that's an art piece out there? It was just like, and so I started lying. I started telling people that my uncle had a bar and he collected all sorts of lines through my teeth. And then it got to the point. [00:34:00] Where, um, and I hope this never gets introduced in court.

[00:34:03] Gary Sweeney: Uh, if I saw a sign, I would paint a new sign, and in the middle of the night I'd trade them out. And, uh

[00:34:11] Bob Rivard: There are businesses in San Antonio, Gary, where you have purloined the original sign and introduced a new one. Yes, there

[00:34:18] Gary Sweeney: was a, there was, okay, I had all these, I turned into the world's worst driver, because I was driving around with this list of words that I had to have, and my wife was just going, You're looking for signs, aren't you?

[00:34:28] Gary Sweeney: Would you pay attention to the road? And, uh, um, I had to have the word pursuit. It was one of the words in the piece at the convention center. To use. And I said, yeah, I said, I'm not going to be able to make it. So I, you know, it would be like, I would cannibalize these signs and put them together. Well, I'm driving down the hill country, and there was a place called, and we're coming up on this.

[00:34:52] Gary Sweeney: We came upon this place called Paintball Pursuit, and I just screeched on my brakes, and I said, oh my god, and it was a, it was a [00:35:00] sign that the owner obviously painted, a very unprofessional sign. It said, Pursuit. I said, I need that sign. And so, I even went through the trouble of driving back the next day, that was on a Sunday, I drove back the next day and it was closed, and, uh.

[00:35:14] Gary Sweeney: I just said, screw it. I'm going to just paint a sign. And, uh, so I paint, I painted paintball pursuit and it was a nice sign. And I put it up. I put it up. And the entertaining part was when I thought they, they pulled up the next day and they went. Did you buy a sign? I think it was a husband and wife. I didn't buy a sign.

[00:35:37] Gary Sweeney: How did that get there? I didn't buy, I didn't buy a sign. And, um, uh, so that, that scenario was endlessly entertaining for me. And, uh, fast forward. It was in a, it was in a show in Houston, a big museum in Houston, and at the opening of the museum, this kid comes up to me and says, Hey, did [00:36:00] you get that at Paintball Pursuit?

[00:36:04] Gary Sweeney: I was completely busted. I went, Oh, no. And then I told him the story. He goes, he goes, you probably, you probably did the right thing because this was a husband and wife. They're real assholes. They probably wouldn't have given it to you. So, so, and my wife is just like, I mean, I'll, I used to like. It'd be eight o'clock at night.

[00:36:24] Gary Sweeney: I go, hi, bye, honey. I'll be right back. She goes, you're gonna go steal a sign. So, um, and there was another one on Blanco where that traffic circle is and it was Blanco Antiques and it was no longer an antique store, but the sign was still there. And I had to have the word Blanco for, uh, One of my pieces that I did dealing with other language.

[00:36:48] Gary Sweeney: And, uh, so, I painted a new sign, and I was changing it out on a Sunday afternoon, and this woman comes up, she goes, Can I ask you what you're doing? And I said, I'm just putting this sign up. And she [00:37:00] goes, Well, I own this building, and I didn't order a sign. And so, I just I just started lying. I said, I said, I work with a guy named Tony Alvarado.

[00:37:08] Gary Sweeney: I said, well, Tony Alvarado hired me to take this sign down and put this new sign up, this brand new sign up. And she goes, well, I didn't order that sign. I said, well, I don't know. I'm just doing, we had the great conversation. And I said, I don't know. It's just, I'm just doing what I'm told. She goes, well, you tell Tony Alvarado that I'm not paying for the sign.

[00:37:26] Gary Sweeney: I said, Okay. I'll tell him, I'll tell him. And she, she was all, she was all pissed off and put up this brand new sign, took the old sign down. So is it

[00:37:34] Bob Rivard: still

[00:37:35] Gary Sweeney: there? I don't know. I don't know. I don't see why it would be because it's probably a new business now, but, uh, it was a lot of adventures that way.

[00:37:45] Bob Rivard: I'm hoping, Gary, that the Statue of Limitations has, you know, passed by now and that this podcast won't get you into any trouble.

[00:37:53] Gary Sweeney: But,

[00:37:53] Bob Rivard: um, we're running out of time. Oh, man! But, I know, I could go on for hours with you, mostly just [00:38:00] listening. Um, if you could do a public art piece anywhere in San Antonio, You were just able to wave your magic wand, and this may inspire you, in fact, to go out and do it in the middle of the night, for all I know, but, uh, Well, you

[00:38:13] Gary Sweeney: know,

[00:38:14] Bob Rivard: Where would it be?

[00:38:15] Gary Sweeney: It would be on the riverwalk, and it would be the Battle of the San Antonio River. I already, I already got it all mapped out. I'm, I'm, I'm convinced that some river somewhere is gonna have that thing, and everyone's gonna love it.

[00:38:28] Bob Rivard: I thought that you might. Suggest a large sign over the Alamo that said something like, by the way, we lost

[00:38:33] Gary Sweeney: well, you okay So for the tricentennial they had a program where they asked 300 300 they asked 300 artists to do a piece having to do with the tricentennial and they issued They issued a year for you.

[00:38:49] Bob Rivard: This is the city of San Antonio this

[00:38:50] Gary Sweeney: was a few years ago, and they they they and I got the year 1867 and so I did a I did a A fake [00:39:00] sign, and it's a picture from, oh, the early days of Alamo after the battle, but there was a guy on a horse, and the horse was just down, and I have this fabricated post that says, future home of Ripley's, believe it or not.

[00:39:16] Gary Sweeney: And uh, it's right in front of the Alamo. And it was a very popular, I'll send you a picture of it, it was a very popular, it was a very popular piece of artwork. What happened

[00:39:25] Bob Rivard: to all that tricentennial art?

[00:39:27] Gary Sweeney: I don't know. I, mine sold. But, uh, uh, Oh, it was for

[00:39:31] Bob Rivard: sale. It wasn't the city that kept the collection.

[00:39:33] Gary Sweeney: No, uh uh, uh uh. But, uh, you brought up a very interesting question because we have some really prominent artists here doing large art. And what we talk about when we get together is the storage that we have to have for, I mean, nobody realizes that some of these monster pieces have to be stored. And so it's, it's kind of a, An open secret among artists that if you're doing something big and it [00:40:00] doesn't, and it doesn't, uh, get the attention of a museum or a private collector or a corporation, you, it just sits in your storage area.

[00:40:08] Bob Rivard: Well, last observation before we thank you for coming on, uh, Gary, I think I was at the Flight Gallery at the Blue Star where I first saw a piece, uh, by you. I don't know if it was titled, but I would title it San Antonio because it was a something of a world map or a hemispheric map that showed we're not the only San Antonio in the world.

[00:40:27] Bob Rivard: Oh yeah. And I just thought at the time, uh, we were in the heat of the presidential campaign at the time that it really pointed out that, um, there's people all over the world that say they're from San Antonio. And it just kind of, it erased that us versus them dynamic that's taken over the country in terms of our anti immigration fervor.

[00:40:48] Gary Sweeney: Oh yeah.

[00:40:49] Bob Rivard: I wondered what was behind the thinking on that piece. And

[00:40:52] Gary Sweeney: well, it's, it's, it was, It was sort of like, uh, you know, we're not the only ones here, [00:41:00] and, uh, but there's a San Antonio and the Philippines, there's, there's, uh, there's several, I mean, they're all over the place. I think there's 15 of them.

[00:41:08] Gary Sweeney: He

[00:41:08] Bob Rivard: was a popular saint.

[00:41:09] Gary Sweeney: Yeah, yeah, well.

[00:41:10] Bob Rivard: Explorers apparently found things on, on his feast day. Wait a minute,

[00:41:13] Gary Sweeney: I'm doing one for, uh, San Pedro and California. And it's called San Pedro. It's not called San Pedro. My dad was a policeman there. It's the harbor in Los Angeles. And so, when I first moved here, and I was driving along San Pedro, People would say, that's, it's San Pedro, you know, and, and I still slip it up every now and then, my wife reminds me of it.

[00:41:38] Gary Sweeney: But anyway, there are a million San Pedro's around the world, like, hundreds of them. He's number one on them. Yeah, he's number one. He's number one in just about every country has a San Pedro. But, um, yeah, it was, I, I, I've danced, um, between, Gently poking political [00:42:00] stories to political situations. And also I did one with all of the, um, I did a map of Texas with, uh, We have a Puerto Rico, Texas.

[00:42:09] Gary Sweeney: We have a Paris, Texas. We have an Edinburgh, Texas. We have a, you know, uh, London. London, Texas. We have a new Berlin, Texas. And, and, This was a lot of tech. We have, uh, Odessa, Texas. We have, uh, anyway, they're all international cities and there's a startling amount of like a lack of imagination that we have in naming our towns.

[00:42:30] Gary Sweeney: It's like, well, let's just call this Prague or something. And, uh, uh, and that was a really fun one. That was very successful.

[00:42:38] Bob Rivard: Well, Gary Sweeney, a San Antonio artist, humorist. Text, aficionado. Thanks for coming on to Big City Small Town. This was big

[00:42:47] Gary Sweeney: fun. Sorry I, uh, took up all your time. I, I did a, there were, they, they, every once in a while they show groups of people my piece at the convention center because they have tourists that come in and they'll have the group and they'll do a tour of the [00:43:00] artwork at the convention center, which is really good, but they'll ask me to come down and talk about it.

[00:43:04] Gary Sweeney: And last time I, You know, it was like for like 50 or 60 people, I said, well, how long do you want me to talk about it? They said, 10 minutes. I said, I can't tell a joke for 10 minutes. I said, 10 minutes. They said, well, we'll let you do it a little longer. I tend to think it's Irish, something Irish about it.

[00:43:22] Bob Rivard: In case we missed any of your stories, we'll have you back someday. How's that?

[00:43:25] Gary Sweeney: Yeah, it'll be part two.

[00:43:27] Bob Rivard: All right. Kerry Sweeney. Thanks for coming on.

[00:43:29] Gary Sweeney: You're welcome. This was a blast.

[00:43:35] Bob Rivard: Please share this episode with friends and colleagues and do sign up for our new newsletter Monday Musings. Big City Small Town is brought to you by Western Urban, building the city our children want to call home, and Geekdom, where startups are born and smart ideas become businesses. Our producer is Corey Ames, video by Erica Rempel, sound engineering by Alfie De La Garza of Sound Crane Audio.

[00:43:58] Bob Rivard: We will see you next [00:44:00] week.