94. Will the Immigration Crackdown Impact San Antonio? A Legal Expert Weighs In

[00:00:00] Bob Rivard: Welcome to big city, small town, our weekly podcast, all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host Bob Rivard. And before we get started, let me give you a quick pitch for Monday musings, our new weekly newsletter offering my perspective on local news and developments in San Antonio of importance and interest.

[00:00:22] Bob Rivard: Uh, it's available for free. So I hope you'll sign up, just go to big city, small town, scroll down to the little box on the right and put in your email. No spam, no cost, and there's plenty to keep up with as the San Antonio mayor's race heats up. We debate whether or not to build a new publicly financed arena for the Spurs and Hemisphere.

[00:00:44] Bob Rivard: UTSA and UTHealth San Antonio are just beginning to announce the terms of their Merger, and we're all watching carefully what kind of impact Trump administration policies are going to have on the city of San Antonio. So a lot to keep up with, um, join [00:01:00] us at Monday Musings, uh, once a week to stay informed and connected.

[00:01:04] Bob Rivard: Well, today's guest is Claudia Hernandez, a San Antonio immigration attorney with DMCA, which stands for Demat, Curtright, and Armendariz. A Dallas native, Hernandez's parents came to Texas from Mexico. Although one grandparent was born in Oklahoma, and we'll hear a little bit more about that a little bit later in the, uh, in the recording.

[00:01:25] Bob Rivard: Hernandez received her undergraduate degree from the University of Texas at Austin and her law degree from Baylor School of Law. Welcome to big city, small town, Claudia. 

[00:01:35] Claudia Hernandez: Thank you for having me here. 

[00:01:36] Bob Rivard: So how was the re election of Donald Trump and his promise or threat to arrest and deport millions of immigrants changed your work as an attorney?

[00:01:46] Claudia Hernandez: I would say it has shifted from just representing clients to figuring out how to be an advocate for this population. You know, clients come in, they [00:02:00] consult, Uh, we represent them through the immigration process, but with so much misinformation that is out there and so many people that are worried, I felt that it was necessary to now break down that law.

[00:02:13] Claudia Hernandez: People be informed and know about their rights. So it's really shifting from just being an attorney to also being an advocate for this community that I serve. 

[00:02:22] Bob Rivard: I think that's a big job because we've, uh, we've seen, uh, President Trump and, uh, and people who share his political views. Uh, and that includes, uh, the majority of Americans who voted for him.

[00:02:34] Bob Rivard: They've created an atmosphere of hysteria around immigrants and those of us that live close to the border or on the border. Here we are in San Antonio. We know that it's actually a fairly quiet period right now. We're not having waves of immigrants coming in. Those come and go. Uh, they were certainly, uh, evident in the first Trump administration, evident at times in the Biden administration.

[00:02:57] Bob Rivard: Right now. It's not one of those moments, but nevertheless, [00:03:00] because of the election and the campaign and all the rhetoric, people seem very wound up about this issue. And that's made your job more complicated. 

[00:03:09] Claudia Hernandez: It has. Um, and really the way to combat it is to also vocalize what immigrant communities do, um, how they contribute to the country.

[00:03:21] Claudia Hernandez: We have lost the battle of messaging for this community. And so it's, you know, that is a way we could come back. That mindset. Um, I do believe that there are many Trump supporters that have this sentiment about immigration, but there's also a lot of people who've been interviewed and say, no, well, they're not going to deport.

[00:03:45] Claudia Hernandez: You know, good people are people who are working or have been here for many years. I don't think they were listening and now they may. And so it's important to get that information out. So those people could also advocate for the community, even though they voted for Trump [00:04:00] for other reasons. 

[00:04:01] Bob Rivard: Well, the data shows that the immigration population, it has no more people that break the law than our native population.

[00:04:09] Bob Rivard: It's a very small percentage. And in many cases, the sort of. Crimes, if I can use that word, that's that's used by by Trump and others are just petty things, misdemeanors, and that can get you thrown out the country right now if, uh, if the rhetoric turns into reality in terms of the policies actually being enacted.

[00:04:31] Bob Rivard: And I wonder whether you think really that there will be millions of people deported 

[00:04:36] Claudia Hernandez: just to clarify a point. The Trump administration has said that any person is a criminal. Who has entered the United States without permission, has committed a crime. It is a misdemeanor offense. So that way they could label this community as criminals.

[00:04:54] Claudia Hernandez: Everybody is a criminal under that umbrella. I don't imagine that they [00:05:00] can remove the people that they're aiming to remove because there isn't that manpower with the government at the moment. There isn't enough people working. These type of positions and there's a lack of funding as well. So currently I feel that the Rates that they are doing or, you know, the people they're picking up.

[00:05:23] Claudia Hernandez: It's more to send a message. It's more to people put people in fear that they will self deport. Um, so that is important for the community to know is that they don't have all these resources and it's really. Again, about messaging, if they could put, um, a video out there of people being picked up, then that everybody gets terrified, they stop going into different places in the community, they start going to work, they stop taking their children to school, and start making plans to leave, and pretty much uproot their whole lives and their children's lives who are, you know, many of them, um, [00:06:00] United States citizens here in this country because of this fear, so they're hoping that because of their lack of funding that people will be afraid, afraid enough.

[00:06:10] Bob Rivard: What advice do you give individuals and families who are here without documentation, uh, who do worry about, can I show up for work? Can I drop my kids off at school? Can I go to the grocery store? Can I be walking on public streets and in public places? 

[00:06:26] Claudia Hernandez: Now more than ever, it's important that people know their rights.

[00:06:30] Claudia Hernandez: Undocumented immigrants also have the right to, uh, be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. So they have a Fourth Amendment right. They have a Fifth Amendment right to due process. So if they are detained, they have the opportunity to ask, I want to see a judge. And the right to remain silent, a lot of people believe.

[00:06:50] Claudia Hernandez: That because it's an officer and the officer says you have an obligation to tell me that they really truly do, um, they don't understand that officers of all [00:07:00] kind do have a right to, you know, shade the truth to get the information that they want. Um, so it is very important that people know to remain silent.

[00:07:11] Claudia Hernandez: It's easier said than done. Right? It's easy for me to sit here and say, make sure you say I want to remain silent because we're not in that situation and people 

[00:07:21] Bob Rivard: are intimidated by authority, particularly people that are from another country that don't speak English that might not be as educated and aware of.

[00:07:29] Bob Rivard: you know, U. S. Legal traditions and policies. That's a tall order asking people to if a police officer or a sheriff's deputy or some other person in uniform ask if you're a U. S. Citizen, you're saying they should just remain silent, 

[00:07:45] Claudia Hernandez: correct? There are different organizations that are providing know your rights.

[00:07:50] Claudia Hernandez: Um, information and as well as little cards that people could hold, um, in their person to say, okay, I don't want to speak. I'm too afraid to speak, but I could hand them this card [00:08:00] saying I'm advocating for my rights. I think that, um, as a community, we need to do these presentations. We need to go out and let people know their rights so they feel, um, confident in being able to exercise their rights and know that when they do, there's going to be someone there to help them.

[00:08:18] Claudia Hernandez: Through this process that they have allies, and they're not just gonna express their rights and lose everything that there's people there. They're going to advocate people. They're going to sue on their behalf and defend their rights. 

[00:08:31] Bob Rivard: Do you think that San Antonio is something of a refuge for undocumented residents?

[00:08:38] Bob Rivard: Versus other places in the country, we're obviously in a red state, Governor Abbott, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick and others are pounding the drum about this issue, sending more National Guard down to the border, really just sort of reinforcing the Trump administration's rhetoric on on what to be done with immigrants.

[00:08:57] Bob Rivard: But do you think in San Antonio where we're [00:09:00] 64 percent Latino city, the majority of those people trace their heritage and roots to Mexico. That we'll have a different attitude and that people that are here are maybe safer than, than they might be elsewhere. 

[00:09:13] Claudia Hernandez: I feel in San Antonio, there's an understanding that undocumented immigrants aren't these set of people.

[00:09:22] Claudia Hernandez: They're humans and their children are part of the community. We could relate with them culturally and, and providing those resources. I think that the city will comply with ever, you know, with with lawful orders or anything that changes with Congress, but I do feel that San Antonio is and has always been in the history of the city, an advocate for civil rights and knowing that.

[00:09:55] Claudia Hernandez: If immigrants aren't defended, it could also bleed in [00:10:00] to actual citizens. So setting that, that tone of defending their rights is also defending the whole community's rights. And I think San Antonio does that. 

[00:10:09] Bob Rivard: I mean, Mayor Ron Nirenberger said often that we're a city with open arms and Uh, both the city and Catholic charities have processed probably hundreds of thousands of immigrants now, many of them asylum seekers on their way from Central America, Venezuela, Haiti, other countries south of the border.

[00:10:28] Bob Rivard: Um, they haven't really stayed in San Antonio in any substantial numbers. This has been more of a gateway or a way station for him. Uh, and traditionally, I've had the impression that San Antonio police chief. William McManus and Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar are of the mind that their officers and deputies should not be turned into immigration agents.

[00:10:51] Bob Rivard: But I wonder whether or not as a, as an immigration attorney, you believe they can be ordered to do that either out of Washington or Austin and that that [00:11:00] critical funding for those entities could be impacted if they don't follow those, the Trump administration policies. 

[00:11:08] Claudia Hernandez: Well, there is threats by the current administration that.

[00:11:11] Claudia Hernandez: Anyone considered a sanctuary city, uh, what that means, um, is really up to interpretation. So they could say, you know, any policy that seems to be not in favor of the government's position to deport everybody, uh, and to detain everybody that is a sanctuary city. So. Um, it's a possibility. It's a possibility that the government will in and it has threatened to cut funding, certain federal funding, um, either through disaster aid or other aid that the city or state is using from the government.

[00:11:46] Claudia Hernandez: But I think what's most important is. Today, and advocating also that the community understands that police are there to make sure that our community is safe, [00:12:00] including the people who are undocumented. And like you said previously, the numbers do not demonstrate that immigrants commit more crimes. It's, it's quite the opposite.

[00:12:11] Claudia Hernandez: And because of these. Actual real numbers, then then the cops should be used to actually detain people and arrest people who are a danger to the community and not be used as another arm of immigration because otherwise. Our community is not going to be saved from people who are committing heinous crimes.

[00:12:32] Bob Rivard: Going back to your remark about, um, the Trump administration declaring anybody that comes into the country without documentation is a, is a criminal. Is there a, um, exception for people that Cross the border seeking asylum and registered to, uh, eventually have a hearing in our legal system. Do they have a document, a piece of paper or something that they can show authorities that show they're in the country legally while they [00:13:00] await the outcome of a judicial proceeding, which unfortunately can take years.

[00:13:06] Claudia Hernandez: So currently the people who've already entered and are in the immigration proceedings, um, could that it could change that, um, The administration decides to detain them and not give them that, um, the ability to apply for for asylum. But right now that hasn't changed. So if they are, they did apply for asylum there in the court proceedings, they do get notices from the court saying you are ordered to appear to court.

[00:13:31] Claudia Hernandez: at this date. Um, if that court is in the United States, they obviously have to remain in the location that they're at. Um, I would say that the administration is trying to make it harder for those people who are undocumented and waiting for their immigration proceedings and have applied for asylum by removing employment authorization to those people.

[00:13:52] Claudia Hernandez: They want to cancel. the ones that people already have, or at the very least limit the years [00:14:00] that they are granted for. Right now, they're granted around five years because the immigration process is so long. The immigration courts are so backlogged, but they're going to try to make it harder for those people saying, okay, well, Yes, you could stay, you could apply for this, but you're not going to be able to work and maintain yourself.

[00:14:20] Claudia Hernandez: And so it's going to make you want to leave. 

[00:14:23] Bob Rivard: Let's talk about the system a little bit because, uh, it's understandable that people are, get alarmed when they see waves of immigrants coming from other countries and massing at the border and then overwhelming law enforcement's capacity to, to process them or take them in.

[00:14:40] Bob Rivard: But I think what most people don't realize is. That's happening because our, our immigration system is broken, starting at our embassies and, and our consulates in foreign countries where it's become very difficult to apply for legal entry compared to how it was at those venues before 9 11. [00:15:00] I know when I lived and worked in Latin America, there were every day long lines around the consulates and embassies as people got processed in situ and, uh, in the country, uh, rather than, uh, just coming up to the border and hoping for the best, why, why is that system so broken as, as an immigration lawyer that has to work in that system?

[00:15:20] Bob Rivard: Why isn't it funded to the point where you don't have a five year lag in cases? 

[00:15:26] Claudia Hernandez: There isn't enough people working in the different agencies. There isn't enough judges to process. All the hearings that are presented to, to those courts, uh, and San Antonio alone, one court could have over 3000 cases and that's one judge alone.

[00:15:44] Claudia Hernandez: That's not including all the judges that we're talking about. 

[00:15:47] Bob Rivard: Federal judges now. 

[00:15:49] Claudia Hernandez: Yes. Immigration court judges. How 

[00:15:51] Bob Rivard: many are there here or in South Texas 

[00:15:53] Claudia Hernandez: in San Antonio? So there's different jurisdictions in the San Antonio jurisdiction. I believe there [00:16:00] is. Maybe 10 right if a ballpark of 10. It was only six before and so you could see how it gets Backlogged when you only have certain amount of staff and people who could adjudicate these applications and then also circumstances happen where Either the government or the respondent or the being the the undocumented person, it needs to seek more time to prepare for their hearing, um, one of the backlogs that happened were at least in under the first Trump administration that they decided to go.

[00:16:39] Claudia Hernandez: Last detained, first to have a hearing, and so that meant those people who had been pending hearings way before the recent detainees now had to wait a lot longer, and you're barely, and the judges are barely hearing cases from 2012. I litigated a case not too long ago, uh, before I was [00:17:00] even an attorney, and I've been doing this for 12 years.

[00:17:02] Claudia Hernandez: So, um, and, um, in another case where. I litigated a case of someone who has been in immigration proceedings since I was the age of, I want to say, five. That's how long some people have to wait through this whole process. 

[00:17:21] Bob Rivard: Is there justice once people are in the system? You're in those courts all the time.

[00:17:27] Bob Rivard: Do you prevail and, and, uh, do you see judges setting aside the politics of the, of the moment and looking at cases based on the facts and, and, and based on law? 

[00:17:39] Claudia Hernandez: I would say that, um, in San Antonio, because this is where I practice, I think that, that for the majority, for the majority of part, I think that the judges do, you know, I don't think you could eliminate bias altogether.

[00:17:51] Claudia Hernandez: I think some people, uh, may see certain offenses and, but, you know, I, I. Because I am there to [00:18:00] represent my client, I am doing everything in my power to make sure that they have due process in, in this, uh, that they have an advocate next to them that will say, you know, will object to anything that is unconstitutional or, uh, wrong, good.

[00:18:17] Claudia Hernandez: Under the rules. So I don't necessarily believe that has to do with with the judges. I just think of the structure itself makes it harder for the immigrant in these process. 

[00:18:30] Bob Rivard: What about the prosecutors? The U. S. Attorney is a political appointee. The career officers below that U. S. Attorney are not, but they surely are influenced by the policy set by that U.

[00:18:40] Bob Rivard: S. Attorney. When you go up against prosecutors, does it Feel like you're going up against Trump administration proxies or people that are, uh, that understand immigrants have rights, that they're human and that they should be treated with fairness and dignity in our system. 

[00:18:58] Claudia Hernandez: I [00:19:00] can't say as far as their political leaning, say they, you know, the, they're not going to come out and say, Hey, I'm, I'm really for this new administration.

[00:19:08] Claudia Hernandez: In my personal experience, I tried to build a relationship with them. Because they are humans, too. Because if I can have a good relationship with them, I'm able to better advocate for my clients. I've seen a mixed bag of some attorneys like, Oh, that's a horrible trial attorney. And I could say, Well, I mean, I was able to get this and this, you know, accomplished.

[00:19:32] Claudia Hernandez: Um, What I would also say about that is that the burden lies on the immigrant. So sometimes the immigration, the attorney working for immigration, doesn't have to do anything. They just kind of need to, you know, sit down on a chair, keep it warm during the process. And it really is up to the immigrant to really prove up their case.

[00:19:54] Claudia Hernandez: It's the burdens on them. So it's an uphill battle coming in. And [00:20:00] the focus really is to make sure that my client's prepared, that we have the evidence that's necessary. And it's something that's pretty much, um, the opposite of what you look at in criminal proceedings, where the government has the burden, where the defendant has the right to remain silent or exercise, uh, their rights to not testify, uh, against themselves, and that's not available with immigration.

[00:20:28] Claudia Hernandez: Which makes it a lot harder, and, um, and, but I would say the, the consequences are pretty much the same, um, and at times even worse because you are, if you don't, aren't successful in a case, you can be deported to a country and face death. 

[00:20:47] Bob Rivard: I think every every U. S. Citizen who votes would be better off if we could spend a day with you and immigration court and the reporter in me wants to invite myself to come do that sometime and see the system in action because it [00:21:00] sounds like it is very different than You Then maybe those of us who have been to county courthouses or federal courthouses and seeing the system working there, it's, this sounds like it's very different.

[00:21:10] Claudia Hernandez: It is very different. It is very different. Um, another thing is that the rules of evidence don't necessarily apply the way they would, uh, in criminal proceedings. So it benefits the respondent because they're able to produce certain evidence that wouldn't be admissible in a, in a regular criminal case.

[00:21:29] Claudia Hernandez: But also, it goes the other way, where the government can produce reports, and there's very little, um, as far as objections go, that could prevent it from coming in. Yes, I mean, we, we advocate it, we make sure that we do our objections in case we need to appeal, uh, but it, it does make it a lot harder. 

[00:21:50] Bob Rivard: I wonder what your thoughts are on who does deserve.

[00:21:53] Bob Rivard: uh, asylum protection here. And I, and I say that having lived and worked in a lot of these Latin American [00:22:00] countries where there's undoubtedly unbelievable levels of violence, including state violence, uh, repression, corruption, and many people are fleeing that. And, uh, and that's very legitimate. Others, uh, are simply looking for a better economic opportunity for themselves and their children.

[00:22:17] Bob Rivard: And that's very understandable, uh, because they, Might come from a country where there are there is no economic opportunity for them. They face a dead end, but that's not what asylum is for. Right. So we do have people that are in those waves of immigrants that might not be their lives might not be at risk, but their, their futures are at risk and they're asking for asylum.

[00:22:39] Bob Rivard: And I assume the system decides those people can't stay, but I wonder what your thoughts are and who, who should be winning asylum and, and, and who doesn't qualify. 

[00:22:51] Claudia Hernandez: So, for people to apply for asylum, uh, they have to demonstrate that they have been persecuted or will be persecuted based on their [00:23:00] political opinion, their religion, their nationality, uh, because they're a member of a particular social group, um, and I wonder if, uh, and race if I didn't mention it.

[00:23:10] Claudia Hernandez: Um, and so that's the key. I, you know, one motivator could be economics, but we are not living in that country. to know that they are not facing a harm. A key thing to really remember is that people from these different countries, they have normalized certain behavior that is not normal. That, you know, if Americans faced it, they was like, that's persecution, that's harm.

[00:23:39] Claudia Hernandez: Um, and when you really dig into that, to their lives, you realize there's a lot more there than, um, you know, there, there's like, well, yes, I, I came here because I need, I need more money. But these, all these other things have happened in my life that really harm me or, um, because of now I get to [00:24:00] be free to identify how I am.

[00:24:03] Claudia Hernandez: and I'm not turning back, they could be harmed if they are returned. So when looking at the asylum cases, um, yes, economics could be a motivating factor, but we need to dig deeper because their lives are completely different from ours and can really find that persecution there that asylum is all about.

[00:24:25] Bob Rivard: So, um, one of the first executive orders that President Trump signed so far unsuccessfully because it's been stayed by, by a federal judge challenged the constitutional guarantee of citizenship for people born in the United States. What are your thoughts on that? Can you, do you see this? Quickly going away and it was done for political effect and that, that, that federal judges at any level, uh, district court, appeals court, the Supreme Court, they are not going to let a, an executive order supersede the U.

[00:24:56] Bob Rivard: S. Constitution and the 14th Amendment or, or do you think that [00:25:00] we live in a time where very possibly he could prevail legally? 

[00:25:04] Claudia Hernandez: I can't say with the current Supreme Court. How that would end. Um, I do feel that the primary purpose of all of this was red meat to the the base and to really put people in fear and Again, you know, there's a thought I don't necessarily know where this comes from that some people are just coming here They're gonna have a baby and they're doing it so they could get You know, status here in the United States.

[00:25:33] Claudia Hernandez: It's not just, I have a baby and now I get to stay. It's, that child needs to be 21 before they could even petition for them. So, you know, that is a quite a long plan that these people have. And, uh, it's just not realistic. I mean, people have children because people have children. And it's not because, just because I'm going to have status.

[00:25:54] Claudia Hernandez: That what brought them here. wasn't so they could have children and then now get status. What brought them here were [00:26:00] different situations, um, in their country that, that they've decided to come to the United States. Um, I think it's about fear. It's about, um, also maybe just Population control of certain groups.

[00:26:19] Bob Rivard: So let's just, um, say for the sake of argument that it was a political, uh, stunt and that it won't prevail in the courts. What will happen if the children of undocumented workers Are afforded the legal protections the constitution gives them, but the Trump administration turns around that and targets their parents.

[00:26:41] Bob Rivard: Um, do you foresee situations where you're going to have clients who face deportation, but their children can legally stay, which creates a conundrum of, do we take our children back with us to keep the family intact? Or do we try to find some accommodation where the children can stay as citizens while we leave?[00:27:00] 

[00:27:00] Bob Rivard: What, what, what's your advice going to be for people in that? In that situation, 

[00:27:05] Claudia Hernandez: and the situation isn't new under the Trump administration, this has been an ongoing issue for the immigrant community, you know, through through all my practice where there is that tough decision because some people do lose their removal case and they do have to leave their certain applications that they could apply with the court and they have to specifically say, Okay.

[00:27:29] Claudia Hernandez: Where are your qualifying relatives, meaning where are your, where's your spouse, a parent, or children who are United States citizens or legal permanent residents, where are they going to stay if we deport you? And they actually have to make that choice even in, before even getting to the point where the judge is making that decision for relief in court.

[00:27:50] Claudia Hernandez: So, um, it's happening. Uh, there's plenty of stories out there of families being separated. And. [00:28:00] But the important thing is to really also inform those children that they have a voice and they should use it to advocate, um, for their parents. 

[00:28:12] Bob Rivard: I'm sure those are very painful stories, very painful scenarios, and perhaps if more people could understand the implications of some of these.

[00:28:21] Bob Rivard: Policy initiatives. They would become a little bit more empathetic about the immigration community and come to see them as human beings, just like the rest of us, um, with, with, uh, issues that can, that can make or break families. 

[00:28:37] Claudia Hernandez: I would like to add to that. Aspect. I don't know how far this is going to go, but during an interview, um, the, um, Trump administration's border czar stated that, you know, if they wanted to keep their children with them, you know, they could all be returned to, you know, the country they're from.

[00:28:58] Claudia Hernandez: Um, and no, there's no family [00:29:00] separation there. Um, that's something to really take note of and consider. People who are from Mexico are removed pretty quickly, especially from San Antonio, because we're very close to the border, within a day. The people who are from other countries, what does that mean? Does that mean that now you're okay with keeping American citizens in a detention center so they can be with their parents and then removed altogether?

[00:29:28] Claudia Hernandez: It's something to consider at the moment because these are actual words that came out of that border czar. 

[00:29:34] Bob Rivard: You know, when the first waves of, uh, of immigrants first hit the border during the first Trump administration, we saw the sudden development of, uh, you know, prison camps for immigrants in South Texas.

[00:29:46] Bob Rivard: I visited a couple of them myself, both on the border and closer to San Antonio, and they didn't call them that, but they were prison camps with concertina wire, high fences, highly regulated, uh, um, you know, movement inside the [00:30:00] camp, armed guards. Cleg lights, et cetera. I mean, it, you felt in prison when you were, when you were in those places, do you see a resurgence of those?

[00:30:09] Bob Rivard: Because there's, there's money, there's big business, there's profits to be made by, by people exploiting the, the current situation and, and, and opening those camps and getting federal contracts to privately, you know, create really jails. 

[00:30:25] Claudia Hernandez: Um, it's a possibility. The Trump administration has announced the border having a, um, national security, uh, emergency, uh, which could, you know, they could use military forces to now build these quote unquote camps or, you know, whatever structure to detain people.

[00:30:43] Claudia Hernandez: So I think they're, they're Are parts that are already laying the groundwork for for that. Um, it especially with with here in Texas. Um, you know, the government of Texas themselves offering land for this for these projects. [00:31:00] And also, you know, Deals that have already been struck by different, um, private companies to build these structures.

[00:31:08] Bob Rivard: Do you or, um, some of your colleagues in the law firm have, uh, clients who are detained and, and, uh, do you go to those places that whether it's on the border or elsewhere in South Texas, uh, and I assume have access to, to your clients and them have access to you? 

[00:31:24] Claudia Hernandez: Yes, um, So I, I've, I've traveled all over the United States to visit clients who are in detention centers.

[00:31:31] Claudia Hernandez: Um, I've gone here in Texas, uh, anywhere around the San Antonio area, so all the way to Laredo, um, and, uh, up north, um, in Hutto, in those, in those areas for detention outside of the country. One, I would say that wasn't accessible, uh, was in Georgia. I had to fly into Atlanta. Then drive to Columbus, and then from Columbus drive another half an hour to the detention [00:32:00] center because the detention center around it didn't have any motels, no little inns for me to stay around.

[00:32:06] Claudia Hernandez: And so I, the closest, uh, inn, and that's where I stayed in an inn, and it was, it was fine, it was fine, was 30 minutes away from the detention center. So, um, there is. Situations where they're building these facilities in locations that aren't easily accessible, not everybody can pay an attorney to fly into the airport, then rent a car to drive, you know, another hour to go see them.

[00:32:33] Claudia Hernandez: Um, so something to consider. Um, I. We'll say that there has been some improvements as far as being able to get some quick visits because of COVID. They are now implementing in a lot of locations, zoom meetings. So that helps trying to, if I need a quick meeting with my client and I can't get into a vehicle to go setting up that those zoom meetings have been really helpful.

[00:32:59] Claudia Hernandez: But as [00:33:00] far as it being easily accessible, they, they, they, they make it a little difficult. Yes. 

[00:33:05] Bob Rivard: So we've talked about children that actually are U. S. citizens because they were born here. What's the status in, in, currently for Dreamers? And these are individuals that weren't born here, but probably came here at a very young age to where, for all intents and purposes, they're Americans in every way.

[00:33:23] Bob Rivard: They're English language dominant. This is the only country they've ever known. Uh, they don't necessarily have, Uh, any kind of legal status in the countries where their parents might have come from. They could go establish that, but, but, uh, they're Americans that it would be, it would be like putting, uh, somebody that's never traveled outside the United States into a foreign country.

[00:33:43] Bob Rivard: If you deported them and we've come so close on multiple occasions to giving them the legal status that they deserve. But I'm not sure if they're in limbo now or what their status is. 

[00:33:56] Claudia Hernandez: So right now, anyone who's already applied can [00:34:00] keep on renewing. Uh, the Fifth Circuit made a decision that the, the law itself isn't unconstitutional, but is staying the effect.

[00:34:09] Claudia Hernandez: And it really is only, uh, impacting Texas. Texas being the state that proved a harm to the state itself by having this program. So it doesn't have that impact outside. Of Texas, the state, as far as like new applications, that's, that's nationwide only, uh, being able to renew and it's really up in the air.

[00:34:33] Claudia Hernandez: This has more, more bipartisan support, uh, that my hope is that, you know, Republicans knowing the contributions that these, uh, dreamers make in, in their states and the Democrats. You know, really advocating for this community, actually pass legislation that will give them status. Um, so right now it's pretty much where they've [00:35:00] been since the first administration, which is, I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.

[00:35:06] Bob Rivard: Okay. We're short on time, but I, I want to ask you before we, we wrap up, how do you make a living? And, and that's really a question for, uh, what I take to be the dozens and dozens of immigration lawyers that are working in, in, uh, those multiple federal courts that, that you talked about. There's literally millions of clients out there for you, but, um, you know, most immigrants leave their country with whatever scarce resources they can assemble.

[00:35:36] Bob Rivard: Unfortunately. Many of those resources are lost in route, either through theft, criminality, they arrive often very little depending upon relatives or community, other members from their native communities that are, that are here, how do they pay for services and how do your law firms, uh, you know, thrive with, with such, you know, um, [00:36:00] economically limited clientele?

[00:36:02] Claudia Hernandez: Well, um, we, we provide consultations to anybody, you know, if, if we, you know, they, we tell them the services that we could provide, we make an assessment of their case, um, and what kind of work we would be doing to be able to, um, preserve their, their presence here in the United States, provide them our fees, but.

[00:36:23] Claudia Hernandez: You know, if they do ask, say, I have, I'm having financial difficulty, uh, we do have an obligation as attorney to provide, uh, pro bono organizations that will can take on the case and we ourselves can assess whether we can take on a pro bono case with immigration because it is a certain population, you know, our, our fees need to be reasonable for that population and also we need to manage it.

[00:36:51] Claudia Hernandez: How many cases we, we could realistically do well on. And so that's, that's how we, we move, um, or, or take [00:37:00] on new cases and do our work. 

[00:37:01] Bob Rivard: I know there's nonprofit legal aid, uh, organizations that can offer pro bono services and law firms can do some pro bono work. Um, you obviously can't run a law firm and, and, and keep people employed on just pro bono work.

[00:37:16] Bob Rivard: If an immigrant is in that five year. Cycle in the system, what's the average cost to that individual or family to to try to win legal status over the period of time that they're going to have to be in the system? 

[00:37:32] Claudia Hernandez: I can't really, I guess, give you an estimate. I don't know what would be the market in San Antonio.

[00:37:38] Claudia Hernandez: But what I could tell you is that a lot of immigration attorneys do a flat fee. So, um, so it could be five years. But, you know, whatever I charge you at the beginning, that's you know, what it's going to be. Um, and they are put on payment plans. So it's, it's, it's not going to be something that they need to pay all at once.

[00:37:56] Claudia Hernandez: Um, you know, with other fields, there's the, um, having [00:38:00] so much in a retainer. Uh, I don't see that very often in the immigration field. It's more of, you know, make your first payment and keep on making monthly payments, uh, to, you know, pay the whole thing. But, you know, with, with, uh, depending on the proceedings too, how quickly they go, um, you know, they, they, But this fee structure could be different.

[00:38:19] Bob Rivard: Well, last question. Um, Regrettably, because we're an English language podcast, any advice that you have for the immigrant community is probably not being heard by them through, through, uh, our medium. But there are a lot of people listening who have, uh, immigrants who are. Cleaning their homes, mowing their lawns, tarring their roofs, washing the dishes at the restaurant.

[00:38:41] Bob Rivard: They eat at the, people have everyday contact with people in the immigration community for people that are very sympathetic to them and want to help, but are unsure what they can do or not do because of the legalities and the Trump administration's, you know, militaristic approach to, to [00:39:00] deporting immigrants.

[00:39:01] Bob Rivard: What's your advice to people like me that, that want to reach out and help where we can? Um, are we free to do that? Um, or are we breaking the law by, by helping people? 

[00:39:14] Claudia Hernandez: And letting people know their rights. is extremely important. Certain populations don't receive the information that you would think with English speakers.

[00:39:24] Claudia Hernandez: You're able to, okay, I'm gonna Google, know your rights, or I know the right to remain silent. Maybe other immigrants don't. Uh, it could be because of the countries they come from. Right there, that structure doesn't exist in their country. And so being informed of their rights and having them informed about their rights is something that anybody can do.

[00:39:46] Claudia Hernandez: You know, if you're an organization have immigrant clients, maybe hosting someone to come in so they could have a Know Your Rights presentation. Advising them also and being that person that helps them during [00:40:00] a time of detention. I advise my clients to always have a detention plant. That means knowing who to call, like memorizing phone numbers of people that could access, have easy access to any important documents that you have, picking up your children from school, um, knowing what location you're going to be and how to pay for any bond.

[00:40:24] Claudia Hernandez: You know, once it's set, so having these plans and informing our, our friends and family who are immigrants to have this in place, um, it's really important and to give them good information and resources. 

[00:40:36] Bob Rivard: Well, thank you for coming on to big city, small town, Claudia Hernandez. Immigration attorney with DMCA here in San Antonio.

[00:40:44] Claudia Hernandez: Thank you for having me here.

[00:40:49] Bob Rivard: Please share this episode with friends and colleagues and do sign up for our new newsletter Monday Musings. Big City Small Town is brought to you by Western Urban, building the city our children want to call [00:41:00] home, and Geekdom, where startups are born and smart ideas become businesses. Our producer is Corey Ames, video by Erica Rempel, sound engineering by Alfie De La Garza of Sound Crane Audio.

[00:41:12] Bob Rivard: We will see you next week.