83. Chris Cullum and San Antonio's Culinary Legacy

Bob Rivard [00:00:03]:
Welcome to Big City Small Town, the weekly podcast all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Rivard. This week's guest is Chris Cullum, the chef owner of Cullum's Atta Boy, the small but heavy hitting Tobin Hill restaurant founded by the James Beard finalist, a stone's throw from Cullum's Atta Girl, the tiny fried chicken shack he's run for more than eight years. Cullum was a 2024 finalist for best chef Texas from the James Beard Foundation. Cullum, however, is all about his team and the people he feeds, not industry awards that nonetheless can make a career. Chris Cullum, welcome to Big City Small Town.

Chris Cullum [00:00:42]:
Well, thank you for having me, and what an honor it is to see you again. Last time I saw you, it was at the Alamo Street Eat Bar.

Bob Rivard [00:00:50]:
Wow. That brings back a memory. That was the first kind of, collection of food trucks in urban San Antonio and, a favorite place for my wife, Monica, and I to walk to. We still miss it today.

Chris Cullum [00:01:01]:
Yeah. That, that was an amazing place and a very cool project. One of the first of the city, The Newmans did it.

Bob Rivard [00:01:11]:
That's right. Jody and

Chris Cullum [00:01:12]:
Steve Newman. Steve Newman

Bob Rivard [00:01:14]:
from, The Friendly Spot.

Chris Cullum [00:01:15]:
The Friendly Spot and some other things too. They have other, ventures. And for a lot of us that's where I met my best friend, Peter, from where you at. And he had the food truck, and he has the cookhouse and also the owner of Nola.

Bob Rivard [00:01:28]:
Well, you both have gone on to incredible things, but it's worth mentioning for people, particularly here at Geekdom where we're in a start up community. It all began for you guys in a food truck, in Southtown with no guarantee that it would work or that people would come or that you could make a buck and break even.

Chris Cullum [00:01:45]:
Yeah. You know, Jody, came and rescued me. I, I wanted to open up a do a burger concept out of an old Airstream, so I went and found one on Craigslist in Houston.

Bob Rivard [00:01:58]:
Back when you could still find an old Airstream on Craigslist.

Chris Cullum [00:02:01]:
And I found this, you know, the right size, and it was nice and beat up. You know, I could afford it. And I was pulling it back from Houston. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know how the so I looked back at my my rear view and the windows are flapping and the door is open and I'm just destroying the thing as I'm pulling it. So I have to pull over and figure this thing out and button it up. We made to San Antonio. It was just me, actually.

Chris Cullum [00:02:26]:
And, I took it over to the south side, and we just cut it apart and and made a little kitchen. The the griddle was homemade. I couldn't afford a fryer, so I just had a stainless steel vat and a candy thermometer. And, I think that thing caught fire about twice.

Bob Rivard [00:02:43]:
Wow. I'm gonna say that was about 2,012.

Chris Cullum [00:02:47]:
That sounds right.

Bob Rivard [00:02:48]:
And, you were there for a couple of years.

Chris Cullum [00:02:50]:
I was there for about five

Bob Rivard [00:02:51]:
or six years.

Chris Cullum [00:02:54]:
And that opportunity, she so I I I built the the trailer, the Airstream, and I would take it around town over there where Cadillac Lofts is, that little park, and I would put coins into the meter. And I called myself hashtag meter feeder. And I would just post on Instagram. Instagram was brand new there then, and that was also linked up to Facebook. And I'd be like, hey. I'm here. And I had a generator in the back of the truck, and we just fired that thing up and sell to, like, 10 people. I did that for, about six months before she rescued me.

Bob Rivard [00:03:30]:
Well, you know, it's, it it's nostalgic now to look back at some of these challenges in this city, and younger people won't remember this. But, San Antonio was not friendly initially to the notion of food trucks. They weren't friendly to the notion of scooters. They weren't friendly to the notion of ride share or Airbnb or any of the the ways that, you know, society was changing, and and people were changing how they how they consumed, how they spent their money, how they moved around transporting. And so it was not easy owning a food truck, twelve years ago in the city.

Chris Cullum [00:04:05]:
No. They would, try to shut me down, and the city was like, well, you you can't do this here. I'm like, well, I've paid my my my fee, and I'm I'm registered. I'm a a registered food truck. Like, what am I doing wrong? Well, well, we can't tell you what you're doing wrong, but we know that you can't do it. I'm like, well, when you can tell me what I'm doing wrong, I will absolutely stop. And actually, Jody came in and, championed us and worked with the city to make it legal for us to operate.

Bob Rivard [00:04:36]:
Well, Jody and Steve Newman, again, from the Friendly Spot and some other businesses have both been what I would call really activist, advocates for for progressive change in the city and for and for the city allowing new ideas and creative people to to to try things out in business and and not get in their way, but in fact, maybe become more supportive of those endeavors. So a tip of the hat to them.

Chris Cullum [00:05:01]:
Yeah. And they're still they're still pretty involved with, new things that are going on as well, some new changes.

Bob Rivard [00:05:06]:
Well, Chris, if you've become an increasingly recognized culinary artist, in recent years, For people that are listeners that aren't familiar with San Antonio in the seventies, eighties, and nineties, you grew up in a family devoted to the art of music and jazz in the form of your legendary father and the, cornettist, Jim Cullum. The Landing, his jazz club on the Riverwalk was home for many years, I think as many as twenty years, to the live from the Landing broadcast on National Public Radio. My wife worked for Texas Public Radio back then in the late eighties, early nineties, and we were frequent audience members even though it in the day, it was one of the hardest tickets in town to get. Yeah. You you worked there as a young kid in the in the club.

Chris Cullum [00:05:53]:
I worked there for sixteen years. I grew up there. He used to skateboard on the river walk. My father would be so upset and throw my skateboard in the river. The manager would help me fish it out, and I'd carry on, you know, riding the escalators and hanging out in the Hyatt Hotel behind the scenes, where the catering happens and riding the elevators and just kind of causing trouble down there. And then eventually, honestly, some of the best years of my life, I started washing dishes commercially at age 11. It was all by hand. The Lanny did not have a kitchen then.

Chris Cullum [00:06:26]:
And I don't know. That's when I really fell in love with the with the business.

Bob Rivard [00:06:30]:
Well, we're here to talk about you and and your career and not your father's, but I would say that, I would credit him with helping put the Riverwalk on the national landscape more than any other individual in his day because people would listen to that program, once a week on National Public Radio and hear about this live jazz club, musicians flying in from all over the country to to play, producers, musical anthropologists talking about the background of what they were playing and and its roots. It was really a music education program as much as an entertainment program, and it was all about San Antonio's Riverwalk for everybody listening.

Chris Cullum [00:07:07]:
It was all about preservation of the art, the music, the jazz, and San Antonio's Riverwalk.

Bob Rivard [00:07:12]:
So did you not grow up wanting to grab a a a cornet or or trumpet?

Chris Cullum [00:07:17]:
I did. I played. Did you? Yeah. I played, cornet, obviously. And, honestly, I I found that I didn't wanna travel six months out of the year the way he traveled. It didn't look glamorous. It was a lot of work, and I wanted to stay and focus on the restaurant side. I really fell in love with it.

Bob Rivard [00:07:40]:
So, really, from a very early age, you probably had, you know, culinary instincts in your DNA and and knew that was where you were going.

Chris Cullum [00:07:49]:
I did. I I I knew what I was gonna do at the age of 15. And there's a kind of a cool story about that. Dad, it was a Saturday night. During the break, I I I got him, right where the the atrium of the Hyatt Hotel is, there's an elevator right there, and there's a little bench. And, we went and sat on the bench. I was like, hey, dad. I know what I wanna do.

Chris Cullum [00:08:10]:
I was like, I wanna open up a hamburger stand. And I I see, you know, the people that are coming in the landing for the main show at 08:00, they pay a cover. They have nice scotch and cognacs and nice champagnes and all that. And what they're ordering, you know, the people who are on the patio during the day drinking the margaritas, everybody seems to be equalized by the hamburger. Everyone get gets the same satisfaction out of it. And I think it it communicates to everybody equally. And I was like, I wanna do this, and I wanna do it really, really well. And he said, okay.

Chris Cullum [00:08:46]:
Cool. That sounds great. That sounds great, he would say.

Bob Rivard [00:08:50]:
You know? That's wonderful to have a a parental support at that age for a teenager's dream and vision.

Chris Cullum [00:08:57]:
Yeah. And so he says, alright. What you're gonna do is you're gonna go and you're gonna write down 14 names, and I'm gonna do the same. And we're gonna meet here next week. So I write down my list. You know, he writes down his list. It's it's next week. The break is happening, you know, Saturday night.

Chris Cullum [00:09:17]:
I'm like, alright. Let's do this. I have this amazing list that I've worked very hard on. We sit down. He sees that I have a piece of paper in his hand. He says, hey. You know, I just you need to throw your piece of paper away. I know you worked hard on it, but the name is Attaboy.

Chris Cullum [00:09:32]:
And he gave me the name. And I was like, alright. That sounds great.

Bob Rivard [00:09:35]:
And there it was. And there

Chris Cullum [00:09:36]:
it was. And it it eventually, it materialized, and we're doing it. And I think it's very cool because not that we're trying to focus on, the project is Attaboy became about old San Antonio, you know, legacy jazz, and he is actually the the logo now. And that happened, during COVID. Right? He passed right away.

Bob Rivard [00:10:04]:
And you mentioned that the soundtrack at the restaurant is the archival, records that are now at Stanford University of twenty years of Live from the Landing. So you're you're you're living with the presence and spirit of your father, every day at the restaurant.

Chris Cullum [00:10:18]:
Right. I just I grew up with an amazing San Antonio experience. You know? I was lucky enough to go to, some of the great restaurants, La Louisiane, Chez RG a few times, but La Louisiane quite often.

Bob Rivard [00:10:34]:
Well, I remember, in 1989 when Monica and I moved here from New York, in in our view, the only good cup of coffee was at a French restaurant, La Louisiane, Chardis, La Trois.

Chris Cullum [00:10:46]:
Yeah. La Trois. Yeah.

Bob Rivard [00:10:47]:
And they're all gone. But your menu at Attaboy, even for people that didn't live in San Antonio in those years, it's a reference to that time period and and the the culinary highlights of those restaurants. And things come and go on your menu that, were inspired by what you enjoyed as a younger person at those restaurants with your family.

Chris Cullum [00:11:09]:
Yeah. You know, one thing in particular is the terima. Talk about that. The the terima was made by miss Salazar at La Louisiane. And my my my my dad was really good friends with the old chef, Max. And he I couldn't stop talking about him. Everything was about Max. And, eventually, I guess, you know, it changed hands, and miss Salazar was the only person that had the terima.

Chris Cullum [00:11:41]:
And La Louisiane closed, and so we got miss Salazar to come to the landing and teach us how to make terima.

Bob Rivard [00:11:48]:
Why don't you explain to our listeners what that is if they've never had it?

Chris Cullum [00:11:51]:
So it's basically, we back on the landings menu, it was called, like, poor man's pate. And it's using, carpro, cured carpro. I use French bread, scallion, lemon, carburel, and a and and some other binders, and you basically turn it into a pate and spread it on these tiny little mini toast, and it's the best thing with champagne that you'll ever gonna have. But it's just cool having that connection, you know. Even when I was a kid, I, I was like, this is this this is special, and I need to, like, really bug her to learn this. And so I have my original notes of learning how to do the terima. I

Bob Rivard [00:12:36]:
don't know. Always on your menu.

Chris Cullum [00:12:38]:
That is always on my menu. My menu, honestly, does not change. Those things that are on there currently are are gonna be on there.

Bob Rivard [00:12:47]:
So it's not exactly a hamburger stand, Chris, in my view. And, before AttaBoy, there was AttaGirl. So, something along the way changed your plan. You opened that up, almost ten years ago, I think, eight years ago, whatever. Why did you do that first, and what was it about fried chicken that

Chris Cullum [00:13:07]:
Well, the the food truck, the Airstream was Attaboy. Right. And that was in Southtown. Then I had Tucker's on the East Side.

Bob Rivard [00:13:17]:
Oh, we let's talk about that a little bit. Legendary East Side Club, in the traditionally African American side of town, the Near East Side, kind of the borderline between Dignowity Hill and Denver Heights. And, yeah, that was the club that you went to.

Chris Cullum [00:13:32]:
Man, it was it was something special. Growing up, it's kind of weird to talk about, but growing up as a young, young man, I was attracted to that place. I they had soul food. There was something magical. And what's weird about for some reason, when I was young, I I knew I was gonna be part of this somehow. I was like, I am connected to this place, and I don't know why, but I love it, And I I wanna be part of it. And it worked out. I was able to I worked there underneath, Eddie Romero and Greg Bickerstaff for four years, then they sold it to me.

Chris Cullum [00:14:12]:
And then I ran it for about four years.

Bob Rivard [00:14:13]:
That was about ten years ago.

Chris Cullum [00:14:15]:
Yeah. And I I my claim to fame, a, I'm very honored to be able to have done that. You know? I I left the dust where it was. I didn't change it. I brought in an I I brought in an old jukebox is what I did. That's about what I did to to Tucker's. And, my claim to fame is not burning it down by rolling stocks overnight. I'm like, I'm very proud of that.

Chris Cullum [00:14:39]:
And I'm very proud of of, you know, dad would play there. We had amazing brunches. We had amazing dance parties. Like, it was it was amazing. I don't know. That's a highlight of my career being able to be part of, that Tucker's legacy.

Bob Rivard [00:14:53]:
Tucker's has had more than a few lifetimes. Sure. And I'm not sure, who the owner is now, and I haven't been there. I don't get out as much as I used to. Is it still a club with either live music or DJed music, that's operating, or is it is it even open?

Chris Cullum [00:15:11]:
I am not sure. I know it goes it's had a few owners since I've I've been involved with it, and I think it's in limbo right now.

Bob Rivard [00:15:19]:
I do too. That's that's a shame because it's a landmark in San Antonio, and, we've never had a large African American population in town. It's always hovered around seven or 8%. And, you've had to go out and find the wonderful aspects of black culture that are a little bit more accessible in other major US cities, but it's something that, the city should cherish and nurture more. And it would be great to see Tucker's have another comeback in the years ahead of us. I agree. Well, you grew up in the River Road neighborhood, Chris. And I wanna talk about that a little bit because like your father before you, you identify as a dedicated preservationist and somebody that values, the history and legacies of the city.

Bob Rivard [00:16:03]:
It's evident in your menus as we talked about. And there's probably no other place like River Road for people that aren't familiar with it. It was a neighborhood that was literally invented by the construction of February that just tore through residential neighborhoods, in the near North Side of San Antonio, like it or not. And, you know, you got this cutoff neighborhood over next to Breckenridge Park and Breckenridge Golf Course that it's become such a legendary place that realtors don't really operate there. Mhmm. Houses trade by word-of-mouth to people who have been waiting for years for a house to come along. I don't know if you still live there or what it was like growing up there, your other family members that have lived there in houses.

Chris Cullum [00:16:47]:
You know, that area, Monte Vista, that area, that is my corner of the Earth, and I still live there. My sister lives, you know, right there. My cousin lives there. My aunt had a house right there. We are all there. We love it. It's a it's a magical place. I grew up also, right where you know where Barbaro is.

Bob Rivard [00:17:10]:
Sure.

Chris Cullum [00:17:11]:
Right there. Barbaro was our, washeteria. I grew up right across the street in, in Monte Vista right there. I used to go to that little Saint Anthony's elementary, walk to school right there. Like, shout out Saint Anthony's. So I still live in the neighborhood. I'm very much, I don't know. I'm very much in love with the the with the River Road and and also I don't know.

Chris Cullum [00:17:35]:
That that section of San Antonio, this is this is my part of Earth.

Bob Rivard [00:17:38]:
Well, it's very much alive and and and rich with with, not just residential life, but, you know, lots of street life and places like Barbero, Chad Carey's, pizza joint there on is it on Maine?

Chris Cullum [00:17:52]:
It is on McCullough. McCullough. Yeah. And that salad is one of the best in the city.

Bob Rivard [00:17:56]:
There you go. I I agree.

Chris Cullum [00:17:59]:
Yeah. It's so good.

Bob Rivard [00:18:02]:
Talk about being a finalist for the James Beard award because I know that, it's not something that's gone to your head, and you don't own a fancy 60 seat restaurant that costs a couple million dollars to open and a couple million dollars to operate. One of the wonderful things about, the culinary awards is the way they they search out the little guys, Alex at, Carnitas Lonja. Carnitas Lonja is down in, Lone Star and, Mixley, which recently just received its first star in Southtown, which is amazing, and and you. And and I just wonder, those are make or break awards for people. And did being a finalist and all the media attention to that bring in a lot of new customers for you or somehow fortify your business, particularly after the pandemic when so many restaurants have struggled?

Chris Cullum [00:18:52]:
Yeah. So we opened during the pandemic Attaboy, but the construction of the area really made it difficult. And I just wanna say to all the the press members, if you're listening out there, thank you so much for literally keeping us alive. Texas Monthly, San Antonio Magazine, The Current, you guys.

Bob Rivard [00:19:12]:
You guys would be the San Antonio Report.

Chris Cullum [00:19:14]:
Right.

Bob Rivard [00:19:15]:
I'm not a you guy anymore, but I but I know that that's what you're meaning. Okay. Okay.

Chris Cullum [00:19:20]:
Yeah. I, very grateful, and it did help. Texas Highways has helped. It was interesting because, you know, it was two years of us kinda staring at each other having $30 days and $70 days, and Saturday and Sunday would be okay. But I think that it's trained, San Antonio, the lasting effects of that construction is trained San Antonio that you can't get down there. And it's just not true. There's plenty of free parking. You can park on the street for free, walk a few steps, and then you're in an amazing little area of town with awesome options.

Chris Cullum [00:19:55]:
Not just us, you know. There's things out there. There's other places. You know, not everything you're like, for instance, we do love the Pearl, but you're gonna have to pay for parking now, and then you're gonna have to walk quite a bit. So I I I'm trying to hear the I'm trying to, like, bring awareness to, hey. We're now a a city that has cars, and we're growing. So sometimes we're gonna have to we're gonna have to walk a little bit. We're gonna have to park, you know, and not block people's driveways and participate in something magical.

Chris Cullum [00:20:23]:
Like, go out of your comfort zone, and let's do it.

Bob Rivard [00:20:25]:
Well, walking is good for us, first of all. But second of all, I think, the kind of, attention that the media and restaurant owners, business owners gave to the debacle of redoing Saint Menor Saint Mary's Strip, has hopefully made the city of San Antonio, our municipal government, less tone deaf to what these public works projects are doing to small business people and to their customer base. And, hopefully, we become better at getting those projects done quicker and also being, more transparent about them and and better communicators because I, I don't think anybody gives the city anything other than a failing grade for how they handled St. Mary's over the years.

Chris Cullum [00:21:08]:
I think that the the businesses need to band together. It was pretty impressive to watch Chad Carey, spearhead getting the construction back on track because, you know, there were just months of just stagnation. And he went in there and and and really helped get it done along with some other people. You know? That was impressive. But going back to your original question about the, you know, the accolades and the the beard and that stuff, honestly, it is cool when they find the small guys because we are actually trying to cook, and we're not me personally, I am not in this business to make money because I think it's a horrible way to actually try to make money. I'm in it because I I love I love the work. I love my team. It is the warmth that the little fire that we build with those teams that the customer gets to enjoy.

Chris Cullum [00:22:03]:
And I've had that my entire life growing up, and I've I I recognize how important that is. It's about you know, it's just a room with a kitchen in it. What you know, that's all it is without us. So if I don't have a healthy relationship with all my team members, the project is valueless.

Bob Rivard [00:22:23]:
Do you have a team that's stable, Chris? We had Grant Pinkerton from Pinkerton's Barbecue here at Legacy Park downtown on the podcast a few months ago, and he's just running and gunning. Things couldn't be going better for him. He has a waiting list of people that wanna work for him. Wow. He pay he pays people well above the local rate and believes that, there's a value in that to his bottom line long term in reducing turnover and and getting the quality of service. But I've had other I've had we had chef Elizabeth Johnson from FarmTable on as well, and and she talked quite a bit about the challenges post pandemic of keeping staff, many people leaving the business because it didn't, pay more. There weren't health care benefits. It's just been very difficult, and and a lot of restaurants have actually closed since the pandemic in San Antonio, many of them with recognizable names that that were regarded as, you know, culinary successes.

Bob Rivard [00:23:16]:
But, obviously, as businesses, they didn't make it. I I wonder in that universe where you fit and and how you see the landscape as a businessperson two years after the pandemic. Well, I've been

Chris Cullum [00:23:29]:
in this business about thirty four years now, and nothing has changed. It's the same. It's the same. That it's always difficult to find good people. I think that goes for any industry. I think it's hard to have a great team. And when you when you have a great team, you do your best to take care of them if that's your actual genuine interest. You know? If that's what you wanna do, it's doable.

Chris Cullum [00:23:52]:
But it's still gonna be for me, it's still difficult to find people. We don't have people, you know, oh, begging us to work or have there's no list for us to work. The way I I like to operate it, I wanna have the healthiest possible environment that I can. And a lot of it is kicking out toxicity. I keep it clean. I try I do my best. And if if there's an issue and I I'm not able to assist, then we quickly move on, and I get to work. So usually, if you see me working, it's because I'm I'm feeling a spot.

Chris Cullum [00:24:26]:
Something's not quite right. You know? There's actually not enough room for me currently at Attaboy to do anything. So whenever I'm the guy, like, the other night, I I I I have extended my hours, at Atta Girl again because things are getting better.

Bob Rivard [00:24:41]:
How how how are you open? Give me your weekly schedule at both Atta Boy and Atta Girl.

Chris Cullum [00:24:46]:
Okay. So Atta Boy, currently, we were open at dinner, and we have hopes eventually opening at dinner again. But I feel like I have one bullet left in the gun to give it a good shot, and I wanna do it right and execute properly. I did it during construction, and it stopped it. So I was serving, like, two to three people a night with some amazing cooks in there. It's like I can't do this. So currently, Attaboy is a breakfast and lunch place. It goes from eight in the morning to two in the afternoon.

Bob Rivard [00:25:15]:
How many days a week?

Chris Cullum [00:25:15]:
That's Wednesday through Sunday, and I shut it down Monday and Tuesday to give everybody a rest. Wash your clothes, do what you need to do, you know, live your life. Like, everyone else seems to get a two day break. So let's do that for the restaurants. And that goes for Atagirl too. Now Atagirl goes from eleven in the, Wednesday through Sunday, 11AM to 12AM. On Friday and Saturday, we stay open even later and go all the way till two because there's so much activity down on the Saint Mary's Strip.

Bob Rivard [00:25:49]:
And you serve alcohol there. Right?

Chris Cullum [00:25:50]:
I do. I got into, I was mainly a beer joint. I started with just fried chicken and a really nice tasty beer list right when that was a a a a really amazing thing happening about, what, ten years ago. And since then, I've expanded the menu. We have the the the burger that everyone will remember that we did in honor of, James Albert Cullen. We call it the Jack. That's the COVID one where everyone like, the block the the car is wrapped around the block, like, all the way down to, even, Magnolia. So I also have added a liquor component, and I have cocktails now, which is very cool because I'm very I'm from San Antonio, and I must sell a margarita.

Bob Rivard [00:26:36]:
Well, if Atta Girl is doing so well in the evening that you're staying open till 02:00 on weekends, what would stop you from, you know, just enjoying the same success with Atta Boy?

Chris Cullum [00:26:48]:
I need to save money. I don't have partners. I do it all alone.

Bob Rivard [00:26:54]:
Do you want a partner? No. Because we might have one listening.

Chris Cullum [00:26:57]:
Partners? I do not want a partner.

Bob Rivard [00:26:59]:
Anybody here in the studio have some spare change that we do not?

Chris Cullum [00:27:04]:
Not interested. It never for me, does not, I did it once, and it was a very, as we say, great life lesson. You know, some of the hardest things that we ever go through, they become, you know, people become saints in your life, and they also become amazing life lessons. And we're and we're very grateful for those experiences, truly. So no. I, I would like to do dinner. But right now, I also know that people love consistency, and, that is more important to give them consistency than something that I don't know if we're ready for. You know?

Bob Rivard [00:27:39]:
Well, speaking of that craft brew list at At A Girl, do you have any theories of why so many, breweries are going out of business?

Chris Cullum [00:27:46]:
I think they honestly just oversaturated the market. I mean, realistically. I think it was just too much. And now it's at its breaking point, but it's also cyclical. It will come back. It it's not gone anywhere. It's made a a very lasting impression. It's still very strong.

Chris Cullum [00:28:04]:
But I think that community that's very interested and focused on that, there aren't as many people into it as there that that we would like.

Bob Rivard [00:28:13]:
I wonder if inflation has played a role too and if people have decided instead of paying x amount of dollars for a craft brew at a at a at a at a restaurant that they can stay home and and and and have their beer in front of the television less expensively and just whether a whole segment, a whole demographic of former restaurant goers now don't have the disposable income to do that, and that's taken its toll on craft brews.

Chris Cullum [00:28:40]:
Well, you know, ingredients became more expensive, labor became more expensive, and these delicious yummy beers cost money to make. And that's just and there's two there's a lot of them. And so, like, during, when we're really having that the issue with inflation, you saw, you know, pints of beer going for $14, and you're like, I can't sell this. People don't want this. Even I don't care how delicious it delicious it is. So we found other ways and other options, still get to support a lot of local places, you know, still do business with with a lot of the amazing brewers, in town, and it's still doable. You know? They they're figuring it out. People who wanna stay in the business, they'll stay.

Bob Rivard [00:29:25]:
The, you know, we have a UNESCO World Heritage culinary destination in our city, and some of the chef owners have suggested that for the city to live up to that standard, it should be coming up with some sort of program to subsidize or otherwise help small business restaurants that are struggling. I think chef Elizabeth Johnson would favor a program like that. Grant Pinkerton is very much a private sector, capitalist and would oppose that kind of government support and involvement. Where do you come down on that in terms of whether the city of San Antonio city council, the mayor, should, should take an interest in the fact that because we're a world heritage culinary city that that, there should be some government support for that sector of our economy.

Chris Cullum [00:30:15]:
That sounds great. I I think that, I don't know much about it, to be honest, but I feel like there could be more awareness of the award. Like, us being a a UNESCO City should be celebrated more, and it should be more known. I don't think many people know about it, honestly, but everyone seems to know that Michelin's come to town. So how do we do that? You know? Supporting small businesses, I it's not even in my, mind as an option because we're we're scrappy, and we're just gonna make it happen no matter what. You know? I don't even consider it. But if it if something were were like that were to happen, I think that would be fantastic. But who gets the award? Who who is awarded the funds? And and that becomes a whole thing, and I don't know.

Chris Cullum [00:31:02]:
I don't know about that.

Bob Rivard [00:31:04]:
Well, Chris, we're running short on time, but I can't let you go without asking everybody that's in the culinary business, the restaurant business, to help us with tipping anxiety and what your, theories or philosophies are about that. It used to be that, 10% was kind of a poor tip, 15% was an average tip, 20% was a good tip. I noticed my neighborhood taco joint when they flipped that that iPad over for you to, sign, the tips start at 30%. Oh. And unless you wanna customize the tip, which requires a little bit of keyboard work. And I think, a lot of restaurateurs think that, customers, loyal customers, can help stabilize their business by tipping more than 20%. And so you often see on a receipt what 20% is, what 22% is, and what 25% is. I think people have tipping anxiety over that, and it adds substantially to the cost of going out.

Bob Rivard [00:32:03]:
But, on the other hand, people wanna support the local businesses and the good people that that are in the service industry. Sure.

Chris Cullum [00:32:10]:
But, honestly, your your Tex Mex restaurant in town is you know, how much is your bill? Like, $10. Dollars. Yeah. Where you're 30%. I mean, you know, do the math. It's not this is what I think. I think you tip what you can, honestly, and 10% is fine. It I mean, it's if that's what you got

Bob Rivard [00:32:30]:
Oh, everybody's gonna

Chris Cullum [00:32:30]:
Or you don't tip.

Bob Rivard [00:32:31]:
Everybody's gonna kill you for saying that, Chris.

Chris Cullum [00:32:33]:
Well, I mean, we we don't have that as an option. I I maybe it's fifteen, 22% is what we do. But, I think you tip what you can. I think I would love to see more people cooking at home. San Antonio's blown up in the restaurant scene, and all of them aren't they're a lot of them aren't trying to you know, they're in it for the money. And I think a lot of them are in strip malls, and I I think that a restaurant should be a magical experience. I think you should learn how to cook. If you wanna eat beans and rice so you can tip, you know, 20% and that works for you, I think, you know, it's great.

Chris Cullum [00:33:06]:
I, I do a lot of, personally, a lot of home cooking, and I save my money up. And I I wanna go to those places that are actually cooking, not just because it's convenient.

Bob Rivard [00:33:15]:
There you go. Well, Chris Cullum, 2024 James Beard finalist for Best Chef in Texas and owner of Cullum's Attaboy and Cullum's Attagirl. Thanks so much for coming on to Big City Small Town.

Chris Cullum [00:33:27]:
Thank you for having me. What an honor.

Bob Rivard [00:33:33]:
Welcome to The Last Word, my weekly commentary on life and work in San Antonio. A few days ago, San Antonio City Councilman John Courage did what we no longer expect to see or hear from many of our elected officials, especially those who vie for power in Washington DC. Courage, age 72, showed, well, courage in announcing an end to his bid to become the city's next mayor when voters go to the polls next May and select the successor to term limited mayor Ron Nirenberg. Courage took the high road home after decades of public service, first as a school teacher and for the last eight years representing District 9 on the city's North Side. His apolitical approach to his district representation has won him strong support from all political corners. Absent term limits of four two year terms in office, Courage probably could have served indefinitely, winning again and again. Even without courage, the first to announce his campaign nearly one year ago, the field for the next mayor's race remains crowded with as many as three other council members looking for a promotion and two high profile Latino candidates from outside the city's political arena. And then there are at least 10 other people who have filed, although most will not mount legitimate campaigns.

Bob Rivard [00:34:55]:
Age matters more now than at any time in our history, in US politics, in business, and many other fields, including sports and entertainment. President Biden, who didn't appear fit to even get behind the wheel of an automobile in his early debate with former president Trump, broke his word to be a one term president when he announced at age 81 his determination to seek a second term. Biden, of course, was pressured to step down by panicked Democrats, too late in the campaign to give a field of candidates any chance of vying for the nomination. Trump is 78, and he'll be 82 when he completes his second term in 2029. Biden and Trump are not alone in DC. Senator Mitch McConnell, the senate majority leader under Trump, he'll be 83 in February. His staff keeps him far away from unrehearsed moments at the microphone now. Like Biden, he slipped into a voiceless daze in public appearances.

Bob Rivard [00:35:52]:
Former house speaker Nancy Pelosi, she'll be 85 in March. No wonder millennials impatiently wait while the post World War two generation of men and women seemingly refuse to step down and make way for future generations to take their place on stage and in the leadership. I too am 72, and I see evidence all the time among my peers who do not want to let go of the authority and trappings of power and influence, be it elected office, the corner executive suite, the head of a nonprofit, and other positions of importance. Like Biden, many believe they alone are best fit to serve. In almost every instance, they are wrong. Deluded might be a better aft word. I had the privilege of serving for thirty five years in leadership positions at Newsweek magazine, the San Antonio Light, the San Antonio Express News, and then the Rivard Report. I can't overstate how liberating it is to no longer be in charge, to no longer manage people and budgets, to no longer be the decision maker.

Bob Rivard [00:36:55]:
At my age, I'm no longer suited to such demanding work, and thanks to some good mentors and role models, I've never embarrassed myself by pretending otherwise. I now enjoy the pace of this weekly podcast, some book writing and editing, and a little consulting, all mixed with a lot more family time, travel, and recreation. Our baby boomer generation is long overdue to make way for younger, better equipped leaders. Our use by date has passed, to put it in the contemporary vernacular. Councilman John Courage recognized that he is still a sound body of mind, but his time and energy will be better spent with his wife, Zeta Truth Courage, and their shared interest in pursuits. We will invite Councilman Courage to join us at Big City Small Town sometime in the new year. He can share some of his hard earned wisdom, maybe help a few other seniors see their way to stepping down or stepping back, and maybe even handicap the coming mayor's race now that he's no longer in the running. That's my last word for this week.

Bob Rivard [00:37:57]:
Thank you for listening and sharing this episode with friends, neighbors, and colleagues. Put something positive on social media. Believe me, we can use it. Thank you for listening, and please share this episode with friends and colleagues at work. And please check out our new YouTube channel where we are starting to post videos of some of our events and episodes. A special thanks to our sponsor, Western Urban, building the city our children want to call home, and Geekdom where startups are born and nurtured into new businesses. Shouldn't you be a member? Special thanks to our production team, producers Ashley Bird and Mora Bobbitt with Blooming with Bertie, and Erica Rempel, videographer and content creator, and Alfie De La Garza of Sound Crane Audio. We'll see you next week.