78. Live from CityFest: The Future of Downtown

Bob Rivard [00:00:03]:
Welcome to Big City Small Town, the weekly podcast all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Revard. This week's episode was recorded earlier this week before a live audience at Texas Public Radio Downtown in partnership with the San Antonio Report and the publication's 7th annual City Fest Ideas Festival. Panels for the future of downtown conversation included city manager Eric Walsh, Centro San Antonio CEO Trish DeBary, executive vice president for business affairs and chief enterprise development officer at University of Texas at San Antonio, Veronica Salazar, Andres Andujar, CEO of Hemisphere, and David Robinson junior, development manager at Western Urban. I'm gonna start with Trish Deberry, the CEO of Central, because Trish came on to my podcast very early on when none of you were listening. I hope you are now. We were just we were just emerging from the pandemic and actually getting back together physically again, vaccinated. And we were pretty down in the dumps about downtown and where are things gonna go.

Bob Rivard [00:01:12]:
And it was the streets were quiet. The offices were empty. Everybody was working remotely. And fast forward 2 years, what a difference 2 years can make. There is so much on the drawing board right now downtown. We're gonna have a hard time covering it all in, 1 hour. So, Trish, why don't you start by setting the table? Don't leave anything out. And

Trish DeBerry [00:01:33]:
then talk about.

Bob Rivard [00:01:34]:
And then we'll we'll, go down the line.

Nicholas Frank [00:01:36]:
Yeah. Thank you. First of all, thank you. Welcome to downtown. Welcome to downtown west, which is being branded by Westin Irvin. Correct? David Robinson junior. Right? So, and TPR and Beautiful Studios here. Downtown, I could not be more excited about.

Nicholas Frank [00:01:52]:
Let me just tell you. It's hard for me to hide my passion, obviously, for San Antonio in general, being born and raised here. But as somebody who worked in downtown for the better part of 25 years, I like to say that I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly associated with downtown. I office with a 150 employees at the end of Houston and Soledad. Had an on-site day care there, so we had kids. AT and

Speaker D [00:02:16]:
T was headquartered there. We had the Davenport Bar. Many of you will remember,

Nicholas Frank [00:02:16]:
kind of that headquartered there. We had the Davenport Bar. Many of you will remember kind of that heyday. Right? There was a really good vibe and a really good energy associated with downtown at that time. AT and T left suddenly, sorta pulled the rug out from underneath us and left for Dallas. And we haven't really ever replaced that energy because then you have the departure of AT and T. USAA then makes an investment in downtown, but then COVID hits. Decimates downtown.

Nicholas Frank [00:02:46]:
But we are not alone, meaning San Antonio is not the only city or major city in the country that has had to deal with this. Right? But the good news is there is great collaboration between the private investment that we have with Western Urban, what has happened at Hemisphere, catalytically with UTSA, the School of Data Science, the School of AI and Entrepreneurship, their investment, obviously, in One Riverwalk and what that could mean, not to mention the merger between UT Health and UTSA. Round of applause for what that will mean. Not just in the entire city in tier one research, but really what it could mean for downtown regarding degree programs and what that could mean for students and staff and faculty and all of it. And then you combine that, obviously, with strong leadership, obviously, at the city, with Eric and CCDO. We have a team from CCDO here, John Stevens, John Jacks, Robert Wren, lots of folks from the city, and Eric, Lori Houston, who is not here. But the collaboration and, really, Hope is here on Andrade from Visit San Antonio. I have never seen, as long as I've worked in downtown, the kind of partnership that we have with all of the entities creating energy and an ecosystem to, excuse my French, get shit done.

Nicholas Frank [00:04:07]:
And not just shit, but good shit. Sorry. I'm cussing. But it's appropriate This is

Bob Rivard [00:04:12]:
a podcast

Nicholas Frank [00:04:13]:
that's, It's appropriate. Right? Because that is what we needed to have done for a very long time. But now the table is set, the dominoes are in place. Right? And so they're starting to fall. Which one of those dominoes that fell, Andreas, as far as hemisphere in a major urban park? We were talking about Muertos Fest in downtown this weekend. He thinks they probably had a 120 to a 140 1,000 people over there this weekend. So activation is important. Elected leadership is important.

Nicholas Frank [00:04:45]:
John Courage, thank you for being here today. John, although he represents district 9, has always been somebody who says downtown is every district's neighborhood. And that's what it should be. Districts 1 through 10. Right? Thank you. Councilman Coeur does an amazing job for district 1, but it's not just about district 1. Downtown should be for everybody. So that is what we're trying to create, whether it's Kate Rogers is not here, but Hope obviously is on, the board of the Alamo Trust.

Nicholas Frank [00:05:18]:
But when you look at the Alamo and what that can mean regarding connectivity and bringing in visitors, and not just visitors, but residents and people not standing there going, oh, it was really? It was bigger on TV. Like, this is what I thought it was gonna be. Right? It is gonna be the kind of experience that competes with Gettysburg, with the World War 2 Museum in New Orleans, with the Holocaust Museum, obviously in Washington, DC. It's gonna be incredible. That's coming online 2627. The investment by UTSA, obviously. Missions Baseball and what that could mean regarding minor league baseball in downtown combined with a sports and entertainment district, a $1,000,000,000 worth of development by Westinurban regarding housing. And I could talk all day about housing and all kinds of housing that we need in downtown.

Nicholas Frank [00:06:03]:
But I'm gonna end with this. We are at a tipping point. Right? The likes of which I've never seen as somebody who's been in downtown for a long time, even better than the decade of downtown because of the collaboration, because of the investment, because of a little bit of risk taking associated with it, but we are never gonna see the kind of, like I say, renaissance for downtown that I think we are about to witness. In 5 to 10 years, downtown is not gonna look the same. If you were to look at a minor league baseball park on the near west side of San Antonio, perhaps a new Spurs arena on the near east side of downtown, and the activation that happens on bookending downtown or we are bookending downtown. And what transpires in between with bars and restaurants and demand for services because at the end of the day, what creates the energy that we need and to bring my son and my daughter back to San Antonio, who are at the University of Arkansas and the University of Texas, is we have to create an energy and housing that they can afford to be able to live in, but also, I wanna go to a dog groomer. Right? I wanna go to a gym. I want a bigger grocery store.

Nicholas Frank [00:07:16]:
Oh, by the way, I want a pickleball court. I mean, people and density of people bring demand for services, and that is exactly what we're trying to create. I'd be remiss. Dom Kostik is here with the homeless response system. Although the great things that are happening in downtown are awesome, we're also dealing with homelessness every single day, and we have an amazing group of people that dig into that, including Centro, including the city of San Antonio. CAM, SAM, Cortezone, Haven For Hope, you name it. We are doing great things in that space. So thank you for the opportunity to be here.

Bob Rivard [00:07:51]:
That concludes our panel for this morning. See why I asked Trish to go first? That sets the table. Let's go down to the other end of the, of the room, Veronica Salazar. Actually, in my last conversation with Graham Weston, as in Weston Urban, he told me, you know, of everybody you have on your downtown panel, I think a decade from now, we'll say the single biggest transformative player was UTSA, which I hope he's true. He's has that vision of president Taylor, Amy saying there'll be 10,000 college students down here someday. Trish mentioned a number of the things you have going on. I don't know that she mentioned, UTA's UTSA's acquisition of 1 Riverwalk, the office tower. Why don't why don't you tell us everything that is going on with the university, when San Pedro 2 is gonna open, etcetera.

Speaker E [00:08:44]:
Just all I can say right now to start off is what a great time to be a runner. I mean, it's just been amazing. UTSA has been on a trajectory for growth for, you know, the, you know, the last 5 years for sure in terms of how we are making, you know, moving forward and deliberate decisions to make a great university in a city that deserves a great university. And so, we have had, under the leadership of president Amy, doubled, more than doubled our land holdings in downtown alone. Real estate, buildings, acquisitions, and strategy that has been connected to every single member of this panel and many of you that are here today because we don't work alone. We're part of an ecosystem of the city and we want to reign the economic development that the city and all of our citizens to San Antonio deserves. And that comes with the work that the university does. It comes with creating the talent that wants to stay here, that wants to live here, that wants to grow their family here, and wants to bring, you know, that attracts the kind of company that we want to have for the future of San Antonio.

Speaker E [00:09:52]:
So we started with the development of San Pedro and San Pedro Creek and partnering there to create a cornerstone of development around city hall, around the the Bexar County, to bring what the tech corridor needed the most. It's the educational research component with data sciences, cybersecurity, and now computer engineering. We started with one building that we said, we're gonna bring the School of Data Sciences, and we did that. And it's right there. Next door, we're creating within what we create, a new college of AI, cybersecurity, and engineering. So all of that combined can bring up to 6,000 students to downtown, and we hope to bring that by 2028, we'll make 10,000 students. We have a date, and we're working towards that. And it's not just about the buildings, because we talked about the growth that it requires.

Speaker E [00:10:43]:
Bringing faculty and students to downtown requires housing, transportation, and other services. All of that will spur, won't bring the demand, and you're gonna see that coming forward. We talked about the, Southwest School of Arts acquisition and that merger. And bringing you know, being part of the arts and that merger. And bringing, you know, being part of the arts community here, we wanted to bring also the community programs that are just doing fantastic next to it. We got great neighbors across the street now. We know that the the ballpark's gonna be around us. We also think that's gonna create a great synergy for housing.

Speaker E [00:11:17]:
Imagine which student is not gonna wanna live there. Right? And faculty is gonna get excited to be part of the arts and the entertainment district. Opportunity that USAA gave us by living and creating that building that we just got, we said, that's for us. We wanna make sure that we can create and imagine that tall structure, 18 story building, that former USAA, One River Place, and start bringing some of our programs there. We imagine, for example, bringing the College of Architecture, the School of Architecture to that spot, having other tenants there, architectural firms. Right? What does that mean? That creates a synergy for our students, so that they can get trained on the job, working for architects. And then, you know, what does that call for us? It's classroom to career. So they get the the the training that they need and the support that they need, the work that they need, and then they're ready to go and create their own firms and then also be in our buildings.

Speaker E [00:12:13]:
So we're really excited about that opportunity. We have a lot of development happening in the Institute of Texts and Cultures. We are relocating our, our museum. We're still finding a place, but we're going to be in the frost tower temporarily because we believe that downtown needs all of that. That needs more museums, needs more support. And so we are part of that, what what UTSA can bring. So we're excited to do that. So I think, like, all of those programs can create the synergy that we're looking for, to create the knowledge, the talent that can then bring and, again, attract more companies.

Speaker E [00:12:50]:
Now, on top of that, the great opportunity of the merger with the University of Tulsa, San Antonio, the Health Science Center, we our programs in state data science and engineering, combined with the public health research and clinical work that they do, that is something that we want to focus because that's where the future is, for the care of San Antonians and Texans. So we believe that this merger is going to create, you know, we're going to be the 3rd largest institution in the state. Just by merging together, by making our resources. And that's just not thinking about what the future can bring. We are going to become members of the American Association of Universities, the AAU, and that is an important critical component to have that designation that San Antonio deserves. And so then, again, the opportunities are endless for us to continue to grow in bringing synergies and service to the downtown core. Our friends and health care system are really excited for the public, you know, the public service that can happen in our facilities downtown as well. So as you can imagine, all of that is gonna bring just economic development and growth for San Antonio and downtown.

Bob Rivard [00:13:59]:
Wow. I think I just heard some news, Veronica. Are you officially moving the school of architecture, which has never had its own building, over to the, One Riverwalk?

Speaker E [00:14:13]:
We can imagine that happening very soon.

Bob Rivard [00:14:17]:
Anything else we can imagine you wanna mention?

Speaker E [00:14:21]:
Yeah. We're open for business there, for sure. I think that's, I you know, attracting any other firms that will be complementary, you know, to that. And we, again, thinking about our new business, our new neighbors, and the Southwest School of Art. That synergy, I think, is gonna be really important, very, very fun for that part of town.

Bob Rivard [00:14:40]:
You know, one Riverwalk is a very short walk over to UTSA Southwest School of Art. And I think what people forget is when UTSA did acquire the Southwest School of Art, they acquired a number of undeveloped properties or underdeveloped properties under utilized both vacant parking and and also some buildings that are just sort of neglected. And and so I don't know whether or not you're whether you're saying anything at all today about what the university's plans are for some of that property that's right right on or near the Riverwalk.

Speaker E [00:15:09]:
Yeah. So what we are doing is, you know, we have good plans and strategies to start using that right away, but we're also planning for the future. Right? We had had the opportunity to grow, like I said, you know, exponentially in the last 5 years. So, we're currently under what we're calling a district planning effort. So, we have a master plan, firm that is helping us to think through all of the development around all of our campus sites. We've always talked about creating housing, for example, downtown. But now we have many sites that we can pick from. We want to be strategic as to what's the next step to take.

Speaker E [00:15:44]:
And so that's why we're asking for help, looking at all of the things that are happening around us. So instead of saying, well, we said 5 years ago we're gonna build housing here. We're just stepping back and saying, where's the best, most strategic place to start? So we have whether we have a Stau West School of Art Campus, all of those properties that you talked about. We have several parcels here by this Apero Creek that are still untapped. And we're, you know, in the process of acquiring that other corner right across from City Hall. So we would have an entire city block to dream and imagine what those uses might be. And we still have the downtown core. Cattleman Square, for example, is still available for development.

Speaker E [00:16:22]:
There's a lot of property there that we can also think about. So we're doing the right thing. We're gonna plan first and then take action.

Bob Rivard [00:16:29]:
I'm gonna introduce you to a developer that are actually on the panel today that can help you with that housing equation. By the way, it is homecoming week this, coming weekend at UTSA. And, since the report used to house itself at, Saint Paul Square, I can tell you they turned downtown into one big tailgate party on Saturdays, and it's wonderful to have that energy, downtown. And I hope long term you guys stay at the Alamodome, which I know Eric is gonna talk about reinvesting in anew. Andres Andujar, as a Southtown resident who walked with my wife to Muertos fest, I can tell you I was just astonished at the size of the crowd. I couldn't believe how many people Civic Park and the surroundings were able to accommodate even with the construction that's going on up around Market Street and and South Alamo and everything that's happening on the road improvement project. That's just grown exponentially in the case in the, I guess, in 2 years, 3 years. How many years have you had more of those fest there? 6.

Bob Rivard [00:17:30]:
6. Wow. Time is flying. Let's just talk about next year. Final 4 is coming. Will phase 2 of Civic Park be done and something we're not paying much attention to, but sooner than later, the federal government, the General Services Administration is going to put up for sale its former office tower on Cesar Chavez, all of the surrounding parking that it had there. Everybody's waiting for that to happen. Can you give us an update on Hemispheres overall redevelopment?

Speaker D [00:17:59]:
Sure. So I I'd like to talk about time first. Because when I think about Pearl purchasing their property in the 2000 or maybe even before then, thereabouts. So it's 25 years ago, 24. We also so hemisphere started obviously in 1968, followed by 40 years of little investment, followed by 10 years, since 2011, basically. It's now 13 years. So it's, we we've put about a $100,000,000 of public investment into phase 1, phase 2, streets in the surrounding area. And that investment just reminds me how I'm very optimistic about downtown and about hemisphere.

Speaker D [00:18:51]:
I follow the enthusiasm that we've heard. It feels real. But as usual, you know how architects learn in school that form follows function. We have learned that form follows funding. And so if we can't talk about dollars and how, where they are coming from as we talk about these big ideas, then it takes a longer to finish. Phase 1 of hemisphere is Yanaguana Garden in the Southwest area, which has the 68. And Yanaguana Garden, several buildings that have received investment. And because of it, have tenants and them such as as Bombay Bicycle Club, Dope Pizzeria, Backstreet Social, and other tenants, Kunstler, Paleteria.

Speaker D [00:19:42]:
These tenants are bringing life to to the park. And the way that we set up these tenants is they pay rent as a percent of growth. And then we reserve that cash to put it back into activating the park. We're not using that cash for overhead. And so that buys a free concert, a little band. You know, and when you see something in a public place and it's advertised as free, remember nothing's free. In fact, beware of the high cost of free things. And so the, the activation of of public places is being experimented with at at the Anaguana Garden.

Speaker D [00:20:27]:
We've learned how public sector residential investment affects public space. And you're gonna see that in your area because neighbors next to an open space is extremely helpful to, to that space. And one example is passive security comes from the perception that somebody's watching you. Now you're going to behave a little better. And so phase 1, served as a good experiment. It included all the scope that we are to do at hemisphere, parks, P threes, historic homes, and streets. And so phase 2 is well underway. Civic Park phase 1 is 1 year old.

Speaker D [00:21:13]:
Last weekend, I've never seen something like that at hemisphere. A very dense festival. So many people. And it was all laughter. No hatred. No, you know, it's just it's loud, but it's the sound of joy. And so it's a good, healthy experience. And so we'll get some numbers and updates this week from the weekend.

Speaker D [00:21:43]:
But that's the proof of concept. Phase 2 of Civet Park will open in February, March timeframe. We will be done before NCAA. Public works is doing a great job managing that particular project. I think it'd be important to have a ribbon cut before elections in the May timeframe, but also to be ready for NCAA. As soon as we open phase 1, we will have a heartscape and landscape plaza at the hard corner across from the Torch of Friendship that is almost the size of Main Plaza. And I explained this, but it's hard to imagine the beauty and magnitude of what's to come. So we're excited to be removing those fences soon.

Speaker D [00:22:34]:
And then you'll find your way from that northwest corner providing a direct connection between not only the convention center, which is their main gate on the west side is in Civic Park, but also to what we call, as we were planning, we called it the octopus effect. How many things can we grab from where we are to make physical connections? The Alamo is a clear, easy, let's do this. The east side, it's more complicated, needs more money. It has a greater barrier. But it's cooking. It's it's it's underway at least with a fee to help think through how to do it. And that's underway now with a selection of teams to do that analysis. There's a little bit of federal funding that the city got to to do that assignment.

Speaker D [00:23:28]:
So I'm very excited about what that means for that interconnectivity that we have talked about already for more than 10 years that have resulted in changes to the Montana and the Commerce Street alignment. I don't know if you remember, but Commerce Street did not look like it does today 10 years ago. We literally took out a full lane that was a loop lane to do a 180. And we converted it to pedestrian and bicycle right of way. So the southern edge of the Commerce Street under the highway is now dedicated to humans, not vehicles. And that has opened the gate to that connectivity to the Near East Side. From from that, I think, is when when you begin to see the Arden Hotel. Like, finally, you could fix that little building on the corner because suddenly you have a few more pedestrians coming in front of you because of these physical connections and investments.

Speaker D [00:24:28]:
So along with phase 2, Civic Park, there are P3 developments. One of them is under construction. So if you go by there, you're gonna see about I think they're at floor 12 or 13 and they have 16 total floors. So it's almost as high as you as it will be. A few more months on that. It will be clean looking by the time NCAA celebrates in the area, but it won't be finished. That still needs another, it will open mid 26, the hotel itself. And then adjacent to that is a a large mixed use residential and mixed income project.

Speaker D [00:25:11]:
Just went to OHP, HDRC and that's historic design review commission. So that was approved last week. Along by the way, coincidentally, with Oxbow, Serva Ventures Development Company, presented their scheme for what was the SAISD headquarters site immediately south of us where where battalion is. There is a large parking lot that's becoming a mixed use by Oxbow. And it looks like another 100,000,000 or so. Just west of us between the Hilton Palacio and the the New Kimpton and the Plaza renovations, we're adding up about a quarter a half a $1,000,000,000 of investment on the private side. And so that's another part of this that you you have these efforts and and the the public sector invests in this community good type projects. But the leverage is this multiplier that as soon as you do something good on the public side it attracts the private sector.

Speaker D [00:26:14]:
It incentivizes that development and that investment. And we're we're experimenting with that and we're seeing it in action. And then finally, just the recognition that as we do these developments, I think what I'm thinking about at Hemisphere applies to Pearl and to Western Urban and whatever we do in the area. That downtown is a place of celebration. And we have certain spaces like Hemisphere that are designed for gathering. We're establishing ourselves as the front porch of San Antonio where the community gets together. And I think times like this weekend with, Muertos Fest proves up that this is a good place to gather. But we as we think through these event days where we have a 120,000 people over a 2 day period.

Speaker D [00:27:13]:
It's an avalanche of people. And it's an avalanche of cars. And what do we do with cars? And what do and so it's messy. It's sort of violent when you have this tsunami of people. In the meantime, you have we're talking about I wanna live there. Can we have an apartment there? Can we bring some student housing and so on? And and those users are daily. They're on the sidewalk every day. They may have a dog.

Speaker D [00:27:40]:
They need that cup of coffee. And so you have a life that is daily life. And then you have this event life. And it's clashing unless we think about it at a very high end, how we one makes the other one better. The event day, brings investment, daily life enjoys that improvement. And so that's gonna be part of the secret of of of how to do it differently than than cities that we that we admire, but also look at lessons learned. Like, all of all of us are looking at Austin, and Austin's got a lot of cool factors. But then also it feels like the culture is out the window and we're too proud of that to just let it go by, by virtue of just putting a lot of development in place.

Speaker D [00:28:32]:
So that's, I conclude here because he's looking at me nerd. No.

Bob Rivard [00:28:36]:
That that's it. That last point. Yeah. You can applaud, Andres. He that last point's an important one, Andres. But before we move from east to west and talk to David, do you, you mentioned Silver Ventures. They're going to be developing the former school district property

Speaker F [00:28:54]:
Right.

Bob Rivard [00:28:55]:
Which will really help connect Southtown to hemisphere in downtown. What about the other side of Cesar Chavez? Do you see in 2025, the GSA putting these properties up for sale and the private sector moving on that? Or for reasons I don't fully understand, is that just not happening?

Speaker D [00:29:13]:
Well, I I do know this. The feds move quickly. What I've watched as the city is working with the feds for the acquisition of the US courthouse, the old US pavilion, I think it took us 15 years to get that done. It literally took an act of Congress. The, the question of the acquisition or disposition of the federal office building is best asked next to me. Eric knows all about it.

Bob Rivard [00:29:40]:
Alright. Well, well, well, your your day is coming, Eric. But, David, if, UTSA is the most important, public player in the future of downtown, Western Urban is the most important private player. I think it's almost, impossible for us to imagine over the next 5 to 7 years what you guys have on the drawing board. Very few major cities talk about their downtowns in terms of acreage. You know, you talk about square footage or a block. You guys are developing 20 plus acres of some of the most historic property in the downtown footprint. Can you talk about what's gonna happen over the next 5 to 7 years? That's starts, I guess, with the ballpark, but how about it?

Speaker F [00:30:27]:
Sure.

Trish DeBerry [00:30:28]:
Well, I wanna say thank you. Everybody on this panel has had a massive influence on my life, and and I think the reason that it's so exciting what's to come is when I when I look back and and, you know, I've being kind of a young person, I moved back to San Antonio when I was 25 from New York, and every single person here, like, I've lived that experience. I've been that young person in downtown, and and the the vision that they've had has has kept me here and has gotten me excited about contributing and pouring into the city just like they have, and and I think when we look forward, it's only because of the legacy that has been laid in the past, and so just, you know, when I moved back to to San Antonio, I immediately I immediately went down to Lavaca. I was living in a back house there and then was one of the first five people to move into the 68, and it was incredible, you know? And when I was living in New York, I one, went to high school here and had no interest in being in San Antonio. I left as soon as I could, went to UT Austin, loved Austin, moved to New York, and really had no plans to be back here ever, and both my younger brothers are not back here, but I started coming back home and visiting, and I saw the Pearl, I saw the Riverwalk, and I started to see these really, and you know, just these really exciting places in the urban core, and and eventually, you know, and that and a man named Lorenzo Gomez, who is the best salesperson for, the urban core of San Antonio, that got me excited. You know, that vision that Julian Castro and counsel and

Speaker D [00:32:04]:
and and

Trish DeBerry [00:32:04]:
Kit and South Town. What what that put together, that urban lifestyle throughout the 2010s kind of cumulated into something that I was excited about moving back to, and so when I moved back, it was really hemisphere that that made me want to stay. You know, being able to move into the 68, living that urban lifestyle, all of the thought and energy and effort that Andreas and his team had put together to lifestyle. I mean just the boulevards, and you know, not car oriented, didn't actually have a non car oriented street, right, where you can walk and you know, and you have cars going, you know, 5 miles an hour with dogs and coffee shops and palaterias and all these amazing things happening. That's that's kind of the dream that I bought into, and to see what they're doing now with Civic Park and the future of Hemisphere is really exciting because when my dad came here and he was playing you know, originally at Hemisphere, my mom said that on Cesar Chavez, they would post cops to not go south. You know, they're like, you can't, like, do not go into Lavaca. Like, you know, stay stay north, go to Riverwalk, you know, go go to the, you know, go to the mall. Just don't go south, and to see now, you know, 30, 40 years later where it's all a vibrant area and Pearl is, you know, or Oxbow is planning this amazing mixed use development in the area, it's it's really exciting to see.

Trish DeBerry [00:33:26]:
So, and then, you know, when I, and then also from the education standpoint, UTSA, the vision that Taylor Andy had and his team to really increase and grow that downtown campus was extremely impactful to me, and so that's, I wanted to go study urban planning there, so I went back to school and studied urban planning, and to be studying urban planning at a university that's in the midst of in the midst of this amazing urban project and thinking about the impact that they're gonna have, you know, in downtown on on the Near West Side was extremely exciting, and so those pieces are what, you know, one brought me back, but then you know 5 years later got me to stay, and even to like personal life, like I met my wife at Stay Golden or Still Golden, you know, which is no longer there, and we were young kids running around, you know, going out in downtown San Antonio, but then, you know, and our whole kind of courtship happened around hemisphere, and we would like walk around underneath the pergolas and all that, and then, you know, now we have a a 4 month old, and, like, I can't wait to bring him to Yanaguana. You know? And so, it is kind of fun to see this full cycle life, you know, lifestyle that that is getting built here. And so, and I think all of what I was describing really is is a residential driven experience. Right? Like what what the Pearl and what Southtown and what hemisphere has been building is it's it's for residents. It's for locals. It's for people living their lives, and this pocket of downtown and and you know, kind of our historic CBD has has not been oriented towards that, right? It's it's been, you know, the base is hospitality, right? But then but then it's been office. You know, we've had these big office users like most downtowns, and that has been what has been the major driver, and post CO it was already skewing this way, you know, kind of in the 2010s, but post COVID without a doubt, it's unequivocally lifestyle driven. Like office office does not drive use at all anymore.

Trish DeBerry [00:35:29]:
It's not enough to have your office downtown. That's not gonna make somebody commute in from, you know, Stone Oak or from, you know, Boerne or wherever else. They're not gonna drive in. They don't wanna do it, and so that's where to else, they're not gonna drive in. They don't wanna do it, and so that's where to what Trish was describing, you just see, you know, we didn't have the infrastructure to support a downtown without office and without hospitality, and so it's really important for us, and I'd I'd hope, you know, every, all the stakeholders, you know, to really think about how do we build a residential base to create a resilient downtown, to, and even looking at New York. I was in New York before COVID. Thank God I left before COVID. But but it bounced back so fast, and even though, you know, their office is like, you know, they've got like 30% vacancy, lowest of all, you know, of, you know, recent history, and but all, you can't get a reservation.

Trish DeBerry [00:36:18]:
You can't you can't get around the city because it's all the people who live there, and maybe they're not going to the office 5 days a week, but they're there, you know, and they're they're enjoying all the the good things the city has to offer. And so San Antonio, when you look at our urban core, you know, we've got like 3,000 units of housing in the CBD, and that's just not enough. You know, I mean, we need 5, 6, 7 times that to really fill in, and when you look at, there was like a YouTube video that was talking about surface parking in downtown San Antonio. It was like 30% of downtown San Antonio is surface parking lots, which is just ridiculous, and and then if you extrapolate that out to 410 or to 1604, we have so much infill opportunity, to really increase housing density and just increase density in general without, you know, without really having to alter a lot of the the city landscape, and so that's a really interesting opportunity, and if we're gonna grow by a 1000000 people over the next 10 years, like how are we gonna grow? Are we gonna continue to just stretch the suburbs and eat up farmland and and you know, really extend city infrastructure in a way that's not possible, or are we gonna grow into a more dense pattern that will be more sustainable in in a lot of different ways. So when we think about lifestyle that's residential based, but it's chicken and egg. Like why do people wanna live there? What's the vision of my life when I live in this downtown area? And so that's activation, and that's bars, restaurants, greenway infrastructure, right? Like you cannot overstate the the the impact of the Riverwalk Extension and then, you know, what will come with San Pedro Creek. Like these are just massive investments that will pay dividends for decades decades to come. The Alamo, you know, that will reorient that whole kind of you know center east part of downtown, and then you know with with baseball, it's an exciting idea, right, of activation.

Trish DeBerry [00:38:11]:
How do we bring, you know, thousands of people, 4 or 5 thousand people, you know, 80 nights a year into downtown, and then what else could that do? You know, with concerts and different activations, and then you know, the bars, restaurants that can crop up around there. You know, there's a snowballing effect, and we need to do that, right? I think we take a lot of things for granted. San Antonio is a growing city. All the construction that happens in downtown is a good thing, you know, that happens around. These are good things. Like we have money to invest in our infrastructure. Like we have a growing tax base. Like a lot of cities don't have that.

Trish DeBerry [00:38:47]:
They're worried about, you know, how do we not lose our population? How do we not lose our tax base? And so we're in a really amazing position, and so the question is, how do we capitalize that? How do we build a a sustainable environment where the city can continue to grow and thrive? And and and I think that that starts with our residents and our residential housing base, particularly in the urban core. So we'd like to you know, we're looking about we're thinking hard about activation and activators, but the larger goal is to build as much housing as possible, you know, over the next decade.

Bob Rivard [00:39:20]:
David, you mentioned, baseball. The San Antonio Independent School District Board is considering the, proposed sale of, I think, a 2.3 acre parcel. I'm not sure

Trish DeBerry [00:40:00]:
and have worked with the city to to pull together. I mean, if you look at, we could all go right up the creek and look at that parcel. It is a parking lot, a dirt parking lot, that, is is not the highest and best use of of of that site, and you know, I think we'd we'd all hope that our downtown, you know, is better activated and better developed than what its current use is. So so yes, it's absolutely critical. If, you know, if that didn't happen, we'd we'd be back to the drawing board, back to square 1. So I hope it happens.

Bob Rivard [00:40:31]:
I I could be wrong, but as far as I know, there's not a firm date for that vote. They kicked the can down the road a little bit with their last public meeting, but I don't think they've set a date for that vote. And Eric, you may know more about that when we turn to you here in a minute. But is there a planned date for the vote as far as you know, David?

Trish DeBerry [00:40:48]:
No. Not to my knowledge.

Speaker F [00:40:49]:
I don't I don't think there is. I'm not sure.

Bob Rivard [00:40:52]:
Well, before we move, Eric, I'm just glad you brought up empty parking lots, David. Because I think the way that we should be thinking about empty parking lots is you're looking at a place where a building used to be that was important in the city and that building's gone. Right. And that particularly defines the western reaches of our downtown area is history is gone. And we can either live with underutilized buildings and empty parking lots, or we can redevelop and bring people and life back into the urban core, which is where the city started. So

Trish DeBerry [00:41:20]:
And one one other project that it didn't get mentioned is advanced rapid transit, which is extremely exciting, and so I think when people, like, when people talk about downtown and even housing downtown, it's it shouldn't be limited just to that geographic area. Like, we've got to think about things as systems, and and, you know, at UTSA, it studied urban and regional planning, and so thinking about that regional interconnectivity is incredibly important. So with Advanced Rapid Transit, it's a really unique opportunity to really stretch out the connectivity of what it means to be connected to downtown, whether that be lifestyle or jobs or housing, and and when you think about especially affordable housing, if you extend all the way up, you know, San Pedro and down Roosevelt and out, you know, east and west, there's that's an incredibly interesting and and ripe opportunity for linear kind of connectivity and extending the reach of downtown, in in a lot of ways. So transit oriented development is a big buzzword, but the city's doing a lot to lay the foundation to set that up, and I hope that we all lean into that advanced rapid transit system to make that a success, because I don't wanna hear anybody talk about light rail because, like, we don't even, like, we don't even use our bus system, and if we don't use advanced rapid transit, the feds aren't giving us light rail. Like, they have. Like, same thing with baseball. Like, if you don't go to our minor league baseball stadium, they're not gonna give us an MLB team. Right? So, like, we have to use the things that we have.

Trish DeBerry [00:42:39]:
We have to lean into the the things that we have currently to prove the case for greater investment.

Bob Rivard [00:42:45]:
Great point. David Robinson junior. Thank you, David. Well, before we turn to Eric Walsh, who's last but not least, how many people have voted already in the city? Yeah. It looks like most people are you know, I think we're up to 60 or 70 percent now in each election of seeing people vote early, rather than on on the election day. But I hope all of you that haven't voted and all of you that did vote have, voted yes for proposition c and the other city propositions, the charter, city charter reform, which are really critical. But, I can't imagine taking Eric out of this equation at this critical moment in our city. So Eric's not gonna say it, but I'm gonna say it.

Bob Rivard [00:43:27]:
Vote for Eric Walsh. Vote proposition c. Let's let's keep him gainfully employed. Now I get to ask you about project marble, Eric, because I just said something nice about you. But let's let's first before we go to the possibility of a downtown Spurs arena and entertainment district and and all that has been talked about there, let's talk about everything we just talked about, the UTSA expansion, everything Western Urban's doing. The city is on board with that master plan. It's got a really unique funding mechanism that's actually attracted some attention I've seen in the San Antonio report of people outside the city of how unique the funding mechanism is. Bexar County commissioner is on board.

Bob Rivard [00:44:09]:
So we're we're right on the precipice of all of this happening. And and, the city obviously is critical to all that. And actually, you know, under your watch, all the city civilian employees had the not all of them to come together for the first time at city tower. That was the former Frost Bank, and now is a a block away from here, 2 blocks away from here. And, you consolidated everybody down there. And that's been another important part of the downtown footprint.

Speaker F [00:44:37]:
So, gosh, so so many things have been talked about this morning, and I I took mental notes of things that I wanted to add. But I think it's clear that, what Shif said, there's a lot of collaboration momentum from public sector entities, the private sector. There are very few downtowns, that have 14,000 or 15,000 hotel rooms And that everything that everybody's talking about is within walking distance. So we're very unique. And there's a lot of momentum, right? Everybody wants to be part of the winning team. And there's a, everyone up here and and those that aren't here are all leaning in, like David said, and managing their own risk and being involved and leaning on other entities. And there are very few big cities in this country that are doing it as well as San Antonio is. So we're at a really important moment.

Speaker F [00:45:39]:
And and, the baseball and the work with, with Western Urban was a very unique arrangement. And, you know, as as I explained it to the public and as the council talked about it, they Western Urban put their money where their mouth sat. I mean, we we looked at a lot of different type of structures across the country, and we didn't find anything that looked like anything we wanted to pursue. And I think it was really critical to have the developer, the team, the city and the county on Four Corners, all kind of leaning in and trying to figure out how to manage risk to accomplish x. And it was a it was a good effort. And my hats off to Western Urban and the team. The the local ownership of the of the missions, you know, for years, the prior ownership, there's been a lot of talk about. They they never invested in the team.

Speaker F [00:46:42]:
And and I'll tell you what, the local ownership took the mantle and, worked very closely. Now I think it helped that the developer was part of the local ownership, but but one of the things that we did as we worked through that is that we didn't we we treated them like the developer. And, you know, so take take, go go up 10,000 feet and look down at city, at at the downtown city. The northwest corner of downtown is nothing. It's literally nothing between where we're sitting right now, well, I get a Frost Bank. Right? And then and then you've got Fox Tech, and, imagine what it's going to look like 5 years from now, 10 years from now, 15 years from now, as you have a rapid transit coming down San Pedro and stretching out that connectivity that David's talking about. So really exciting. I'm I'm I think we went into this knowing that we wanted to accomplish something that was doable and acceptable as we laid it out to the council.

Speaker F [00:47:46]:
Pick up the paper. Cities debate this stuff all the time, and and some fumble the football and some score touchdowns. And we wanted to make sure that we developed something that was that met the kind of the council's standards in managing our risk. And and, it was a it was a good exercise to go through, and I I think it's, a good template that we can use going forward.

Bob Rivard [00:48:10]:
Eric, talk a little bit about let's go back to the east side of downtown, for all the talk about whether or not we're gonna bring the Spurs back for the arena. There's other important building blocks of that, including, continuing Alamodome, upgrades. And one that surprised me a little bit, which was another convention center upgrade because we invested substantially in the convention center, I think, about 5 years ago. And I think the thought back then was it'll be 20 years before we do it again. But we're now talking about expanding it. We are looking north on I 35, and we see Austin is about to, I believe, demolish their convention center. They have the funding in place, I believe, to build light rail from, the airport, from Bergstrom, Boston Bergstrom over to their new convention center, which will be on the same downtown footprint. And they'll be building a bigger convention center.

Bob Rivard [00:49:03]:
So we collaborate, but we compete with us. And it's a strange relationship. And, it is driving both cities in the directions they're going.

Speaker F [00:49:12]:
Yeah. So I mean, like everybody else up here, you know, you you plan. Right? And you, projects like that need a long runway. And so about 2 years ago, we sat together, with the staff, you know, Lori, Ben Gorizel, myself, the convention center staff, and just kinda looked at what are we doing on that corner of downtown. And and not only do you have Austin reconstructing, but you also have Dallas doing it. So there's gonna be a period of time where those centers are down, and, a, how do we scoop business? B, how do we be better once we get that business to keep that business? And so we started looking at oh, number 2, we had the Dome on the eve of their 30th birthday. Right? Busting at the seams since COVID, we have had all kinds of events in the Dome. It's been a good run at the Dome, but we knew we were gonna need to continue to invest.

Speaker F [00:50:16]:
It is not it is not an NFL stadium. We don't have the the highest quality seats that compare with Jerry World, but we don't have an anchor tenant like the NFL. And then the third piece of that was kind of what, Andres was talking about. We have been moving in 5 year municipal bond increments to invest in Hemisphere Park, and and I'm gonna have a lot more gray hair by the time we get to 30 7. So how do we how do we take those 3 public assets, and what's a broader vision? And and, you know, it's no secret, as we were doing that, Veronica and doctor Amy came to meet with us and said, we may want to look at other property for the ITC. Well, that's right there in the middle of those three assets. As we developed work, developed kind of a general plan of what that could be, In working with VISTA San Antonio, we were able to put together the feasibility of of the amount of business we lost in the last 5 years, minus the COVID, nightmare years. But how much space did we need to be able to to handle the business we turned away at the convention center? Because, you you know, you can have multiple events in that facility.

Speaker F [00:51:34]:
And do we need another convention center hotel, or another tower to the Grand Hyatt? The value of a convention center hotel is the block rooms. The fact of the matter is is that we're losing block rooms because we have so many leisure travelers coming into San Antonio. So they're giving away the block rooms. So when the big convention with 6,000 delegates comes, and they want to come in April of 2026, the block isn't there. So do we need to look at extending that block? GSA. Right? The federal building, off of, Cesar Chavez, and I'm gonna use I'm gonna use kind of a a layman's term. We have the right of first refusal on that property, on that building and the parking lot across the street. Now there's we've got to go through a federal process and we've initiated that, but our idea is to acquire that from the federal government.

Speaker F [00:52:22]:
And we got that from the trade, to bring, the new federal courthouse down here off of Santa Rosa. And we've initiated that and, you know, it's it's, you know, you've got to continuously lean in. We've talked to our senators, we've talked to Congressman Castro, we've talked to the GSA, so we're we're moving in that direction. But I think all that, when you look at the type of investment, there's probably 40, 45, maybe 50 acres of developable property in that whole area. And so we've undertaken a kind of a master plan effort to look at what does it look like? How much more do we don't need a new convention center. We're not Austin or Dallas. We need about a 150,000 square feet. We need to do something with the dome.

Speaker F [00:53:09]:
We put in, we have the men's final 4 next year. We have women's final 4 in 2029. I don't know about you, but I watched more women's final 4 this last year than I did men's. So God only knows what it's gonna look like in 2029. We got the regional men's basketball championship in 2027. You have the expanded college football playoff program that's going to kick off this year. So how do we position ourselves to be able to because the NCAA we have a great relationship with the NCAA. Again, it goes back to 15,000 hotel rooms within walking distance of the dome.

Speaker F [00:53:45]:
And, last year, something happened to the 2031 city that was gonna host the men's final four and NCAA asked Saloc and the city to bid and we didn't get it. And one of the things we got back from the NCAA is they love San Antonio, but we're competing with newer facilities. And so, we're gonna have to make an investment in that, and we know that. And so we're going through the feasibility to lay out to the council, you know, what are the options? And then Andres talked about the parking and the roadway and the infrastructure and chilled water and the fact that you walk outside the convention center and you look at, and no offense to Robert Puente, the chilled water plant across the street, which is which is much needed downtown. It's just like in the wrong spot. So that's not cheap to move. Right? So we've got to figure that that that out. All that being told, there's a possibility, and and it's certainly been reported.

Speaker F [00:54:45]:
I think they I think some think there's a a piece of paper in my desk somewhere that says we've already agreed to everything, but there isn't, by the way, to lay out that plan for the council. And I think you'll see that here in the next couple of weeks. I'll I'll tell you right now, we don't there is not enough money to do everything that needs to be done. And so so how do you execute that? You do that through, leveraging existing resources,

Bob Rivard [00:55:10]:
or our hotel

Speaker F [00:55:10]:
occupancy tax. You do that in occupancy tax. You do that in close coordination with the county and potentially the venue tax that voters approve periodically. You do that through new revenue sources in the last legislative session, senate bill 2120, which allowed us to capture, within a 3 mile zone, an increment of the of the state hot tax. You do that through development. You do that through private development and private equity. And, you know, laying out a plan that can be executed over 8, 10, 12 years is gonna be critical, and and that's what we're working on. You'll see that laying out, we'll we'll lay that out to the council here in the next couple of weeks in November.

Speaker F [00:55:52]:
And that's just to begin the conversation. Revitalized, reinvested southeast corner, which potentially with a connection over 37. We're doing that planning grant right now, with the US Department of Transportation to connect both sides of the highway, re envisioned with a massive upgrade in infrastructure, the Alamo in the middle, continued to continued investment with UTSA, and how all that is going to continue to attract investment in new construction and new residential downtown is super exciting, because we are Trish Trish said it perfectly earlier. It's bookended. Right? There's 2 new parts of downtown. Right? If if all things all things being equal, if everything works out, and there's proper development and private equity, and we're able to leverage all that, you've got 2 new corners of downtown 10 years from now. That's huge.

Bob Rivard [00:56:59]:
Thank you very much. Plus Broadway.

Trish DeBerry [00:57:00]:
I mean, all the connection to the Pearl, that's going to be incredible. All Midtown, River North, whatever you wanna call it. Broadway's done.

Nicholas Frank [00:57:06]:
Lower Broadway open. Yes.

Bob Rivard [00:57:10]:
Lower Broadway open Saturday. Those, memories of detours and construction barriers will start to fade from the mind here over time.

Speaker F [00:57:18]:
We only think of the good times. Yeah.

Speaker D [00:57:21]:
We only think of the good times.

Bob Rivard [00:57:23]:
It took a full hour to just put out here everything that's happening. And I'm so glad, Angie and Lee, that you gave me the opportunity to do that. I feel like in our city for the last month and a half, the only thing we've talked about downtown is the soap factory apartments, which when I was the editor of the Express News, we had to rent those for visiting fellows and interns. And and I've never been a fan of the soap factory. I gotta tell you, the last thing we're gonna talk about here is the residential housing that we're gonna add because we are gonna take away those 318 units or however many there are. But, Veronica, you talked about student housing. Andres, you talked about mixed, housing for different income levels at hemisphere. David, Westinurban's been on record as more than a 1000 units is gonna be built over time.

Bob Rivard [00:58:12]:
There's other developers that are gonna come into that mix. So can you talk a little bit about maybe what the housing is gonna look like, over the next 5 to 7 years and the opportunity for people at various income levels to to call downtown home? Who wants to take a piece of that?

Speaker E [00:58:30]:
I'll get started with the student piece. Right? I think when we talk about 10,000 students, we have a, you know, a ratio we like to keep if we wanna also have a residential campus. And it's about 20% of that. So that's our own need. That's what we'll bring to the table. Again, the demand for housing for college students, faculty, and staff, that is equals about 20% of that. So I think that's gonna push a big development that, can create the synergies that we're looking for and the momentum that the city deserves to in downtown.

Bob Rivard [00:59:03]:
David, one of the buildings I always admired and was gonna buy if I hit the lottery, which didn't happen, was the Continental Hotel, the historic Continental Hotel. And that's about 300 plus units coming, isn't it, of, various income levels?

Trish DeBerry [00:59:16]:
Yeah. So, it took you brought up Soap Factory. You know, that's been very much top of conversation, and it's it's super complex. Right? So Soap Factory, it's funny. I was talking to a lot of the stakeholders at the, you know, the the Italian church there, and that that area used to be a thriving Italian neighborhood, and and as the as Eric and the city, you know, the the government made a lot of really bad decisions in the sixties seventies, and a lot of that was in the name of urban renewal, and and, and so the soap factory, the land, that 9 acres, it was imminent domain, completely wiped out, and then they put up, you know, 3 story walk up apartments, right? And so 381 units, completely market rate, no affordable anything, no subsidies, no nothing. Right? And so I'd say, you know, the the density of Soap Factory just looking at just form, right, is not appropriate for downtown. You have 381 units across 9 acres right in our downtown. That's just not the level of density that is sustainable.

Trish DeBerry [01:00:18]:
Now also that that property was built in the late seventies, and so it it has provided some some fantastic housing, you know, when we have needed housing in the urban core for a long time, and that's fantastic, right? But the truth is it is at the end of its life as is as a property, and so you look at properties across all of San Antonio of that vintage. What happens is out of towners come and buy those. They flip flip them. They fix them up, push people out, and then you know they call it value add real estate, and so that happens across San Antonio all day every day, and usually people get 2 months notice of saying, hey, we're not renewing your lease. Your rents, you know, we're gonna renovate your apartment. Your rent's gonna go up 3, $400 and and that is what what it is, and I think what's happened at the Soap Factory because of the public process and the stadium that that is proposed has created a really unique space for us to have that conversation because we talked about 1,000,000,000 of dollars and 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars of investment, but that doesn't matter without people. Right? I think we wanna always be extremely sensitive and thoughtful about people of San Antonio, the people who have chosen to live downtown, and so we're trying to, you know, we have worked with the city, worked with council, worked with the existing residents to talk through, you know, what are solutions that could work. And so I'd say one thing, you know, instead of just that 2 month notice of saying, hey, you're you're, we're not renewing your lease, you know, the first people who would be relocated or, you know, would have to move is is almost a year out from now.

Trish DeBerry [01:01:49]:
So we're talking about, you know, October of 2025, which never happens in private development. So, you know, the time and and putting in relocation services, housing navigation services, the the the housing assistance package, the relocation package. So I think we're trying to be sensitive now. Is it perfect? Is is everybody going to be happy? No. But we're trying to be collaborative and and thoughtful and engage on really complex, sensitive issues. And so so I think, you know, long term, we need more density in in in our downtown than that. Now the larger landscape, so you know, we have 381 units of housing at Soap Factory at 300 Main. We were able to do 354 units on an acre, right? So the, you know, 9 times the density compared to what you have at Soap Factory.

Trish DeBerry [01:02:39]:
And so if you want to get to housing supply, increased housing supply, supply, more tools for the the the city and the county to encourage density, to encourage affordable housing, you need density and you need supply. And so you get to see that at the Continental Project, which is is an incredible project, but you know, the city sold Westin Urban the the Continental Hotel and the land behind it, and as part of that, we were able to to negotiate a, you know, affordability into that sale as well, and then on top of that, we worked with the county to put together a structure where, you know, long term, the county's gonna own that land, and then, we're building 290 units of mixed income housing, which is absolutely gonna tie into the university and, you know, faculty, students, a lot of the students, you know, I lived this. A lot of the students that currently are, you know, taking night classes, they have full time jobs. They might be, you know, working at an entry level at the at the city, making 50,000 a year and then going to night class at UTSA and public administration. You know, that the

Speaker D [01:03:39]:
continental's gonna be perfect.

Trish DeBerry [01:03:39]:
Over half the units or administration, you know, that the Continental's gonna be perfect. Over half the units, or half the units are for residents who are at 80% of AMI and at 60% of AMI. So that's just a really unique opportunity there, and and we'd like to do more of that, but but it's gonna take increased development. You know, in New York, they have the 80 20 rule where, you know, they New York can force pretty much, for a density bonus, 20% of units to be affordable, but that's because they have so much supply, so much demand that developers are willing to go higher and higher and higher, and then you can trade, you know, city incentives for increased density, but we're, you know, we need to get there before we can start, you know, being able to leverage a lot of the tools that have been successfully leveraged in other places. And then as we think about so between 300 Main, 354 units. Continental, we've got 290 units, and then the historic buildings that will also be renovated, and then we've got a pipeline of projects, and you said a1000. Our goal is closer to, you know, 3, 4, 5000 over the next 10 years of housing, and then we hope that others come and join. It's not the Westin Urban Show.

Trish DeBerry [01:04:45]:
This is downtown. It needs to be a mixed fabric of different actors, so we're you know begging folks, come on, come invest, come join the party. We want multitudes of folks to come and invest, and we hope as many of those are locals because I think what you saw in Austin when you start having a lot of external developers come, that's when you really are at risk of losing. Now it's not all bad. Right? Like, it's it's good to have a mix, but but you want the the majority of the stakeholders to be local investors, local, because like, we live here, we're gonna be it's just gonna have a different tone of of development versus just a wave of external capital who really don't care. They're there to make money.

Speaker E [01:05:25]:
I think when, that's

Bob Rivard [01:05:26]:
great context, David. Thank you for that. Veronica, did you wanna say?

Speaker E [01:05:28]:
Yeah. Just briefly because I wanted you know, we talked about the concept of time in investment and planning. 5 years ago when we decided to invest in some better properties with the help from the city and the county in acquiring those properties, 5 years ago, we started talking about Continental Hotel and housing for those students as well. So now you see, you know, fast forward to 5 years, then what can be. Now we're delivering on those things. So it is something that is unique for San Antonio that I want to make sure we all leave today with. It cannot be done alone, and we need to leverage all of our strengths.

Bob Rivard [01:06:03]:
So everybody needs Eric to

Speaker E [01:06:04]:
give them more incentives. He's here.

Nicholas Frank [01:06:06]:
I'm not

Trish DeBerry [01:06:06]:
sure you're hearing.

Nicholas Frank [01:06:07]:
Just You have something important, Bob. You talked about putting on Castro on a decade of downtown, which was hugely important because it inspired somewhat 10,000 units in downtown. I talk about this in the respect that the decade of downtown was both a blessing and a curse. It inspired all this great housing that we have in downtown, but It also put an expiration date on downtown, meaning 10 years is up, we have to stop, we need to go to other places. Here's the truth of the matter. We never stop investing in the urban core in downtown. We never stop ideating. We never stop innovating.

Nicholas Frank [01:06:44]:
We never stop investing because downtown, unlike probably any downtown in the country, has a soul. I mean, it's palpable. You can feel it here. So the job of everybody here, including myself, is really what we're doing here is reviving the heartbeat. And so from a housing standpoint, I think we've gotta move off this idea on very complex issues, by the way. Whether we're talking about homelessness, whether we're talking about mobility, whether we're talking about housing, it's not an either or equation. It's an and. Meaning, we don't just need affordable housing, we don't just need market rate housing.

Nicholas Frank [01:07:22]:
We need all types of housing. And yes, by the way, that means student housing. By the way, that means workforce housing because we need to make sure that employees who work and support the hospitality industry, robust, huge hospitality industry that we have in downtown. Eric mentioned it. We don't really have a central business district in downtown. We have a central hotel district. Nothing wrong with that. Right? Because we reap the benefits, and there's a lot of sales tax that comes as a result of it, but for those workers that are at the hotels that are working, they need to live in places that are closer to the place that they work.

Nicholas Frank [01:08:01]:
So it is affordable. It is deeply affordable. It is market rate. It is luxury. It is student housing. It is workforce housing. It's all of it. And so Centra, with the help of Visit San Antonio, have sponsored a study by HRNA to come in and look at that complex equation that we're talking about.

Nicholas Frank [01:08:18]:
We're hopeful, obviously, we go to the council in November, but housing is a hugely important, make no mistake, hugely important component associated with downtown. And by the way, housing doesn't have to mean displacement. Right? And as we look at a new legacy bill says what? It says, if you have lived in your home, and and you have experienced gentrification and increase in property taxes, but you've lived in your home more than 2 generations, your property taxes are frozen. Meaning you can still afford to live in your home, despite the redevelopment that has happened around you. That needs to happen. Those kinds of solutions are important. So we need to keep innovating in that space and what we're thinking about and keeping people in their homes despite the redevelopment and gentrification that occurs. But that's a hard balance to strike, but that's what these folks are elected for.

Nicholas Frank [01:09:18]:
Right? Yes.

Bob Rivard [01:09:19]:
Alright. Appointed.

Speaker F [01:09:21]:
You know, not elected.

Bob Rivard [01:09:22]:
We don't have lunch to serve, so we're gonna have to call it a day. Angie and Lee, we could keep going, but I think we need to give the microphone to you and thank a great panel for, a wonderfully intense informative hour. Welcome to the last word, my weekly commentary on life and work in San Antonio and Texas. I hope many of our listeners found the future of downtown panel that marked the start of the San Antonio report's 7th annual city fest to be a refreshing and comprehensive update on everything that is happening and will be happening in the next 5 years in downtown San Antonio. My thanks to the report for organizing the event and to Texas Public Radio for serving as our host in its beautiful studios. Only 2 short years after the pandemic left downtowns across the country hollowed out as people vacated offices began to work remotely and sheltered at home, the prospects for downtown San Antonio looked very promising. As our panel of remarkable individuals so clearly articulated in their remarks, there is more happening in San Antonio, the nation's fastest growing city in 2023, than almost any other major US city. One reason the panel was so compelling is the quality of the speakers.

Bob Rivard [01:10:39]:
Westin Urban's David Robinson junior represents the new generation of city leaders we are seeing move into positions of influence in both the private sector and public service. Veronika Salazar, UTSA's VP leading the university's efforts to dramatically expand its downtown campus, gave our studio audience a real sense of how much growth will occur in the university's downtown presence in the coming years. Hemisphere CEO Andres Andurjar and Centro San Antonio CEO Trish DeBary have been at work building a better downtown for decades in various roles, while city manager Eric Walsh has devoted his entire career to his work at the city of San Antonio since graduating from Trinity University. This talent combine comes in no small part from smart, dedicated individuals whose vision and ability to bring big projects to fruition is rooted in their knowledge foundation that only comes with years of experience in leadership positions. For those of you who have not yet voted, I urge you to invest in San Antonio's future by voting yes for the ballot propositions that aim to make the San Antonio City Charter more reflective of contemporary times and more responsive to the opportunities and challenges we face today. It is especially important to undo the damage done some years ago by the San Antonio Firefighters Union, which placed term and salary limits on the city manager's position. I appreciate the good work of these first responders, but they lack what it takes to manage a modern major US city. The union's toxic politics have no place in our city's bright future.

Bob Rivard [01:12:19]:
We need stability in our leadership to maximize San Antonio's potential. Voting no to the propositions will only rob us of the great momentum we have going forward. Please vote Tuesday, November 5th, if you have not yet voted, and please vote for the charter amendments. For, not against. That's my last word for this week. Thank you for listening. That concludes this week's episode of Big City Small Town. Thank you to our presenting sponsors, Westin Urban, building the city our children want to call home, and Geekdom, helping business entrepreneurs move successfully from idea to start up.

Bob Rivard [01:12:59]:
Special thanks to our producers, Ashley Bird and Mora Bobbitt, and our audio engineer, Alfie De La Garza of Sound Crane Audio.