119. The Mayor’s Race: Rolando Pablos on Economic Competitiveness, Poverty, and Cross-Border Partnerships for San Antonio

Bob Rivard [00:00:03]:
Welcome to Big City Small Town, the weekly podcast all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Rivard. Today, we continue our April series of interviews with the leading candidates running for mayor in San Antonio. Remember, early voting gets underway Tuesday, April 22, which is today, and runs through Tuesday, April 29. Election day itself is Saturday, May 3. Let's vote. Our guest today is candidate for San Antonio Mayor Rolando Pablos. He's a businessman, an attorney, a free trade and economic development expert.

Bob Rivard [00:00:38]:
Rolando has a long resume of business leadership positions and political appointments. He's the former Republican secretary of state and the former chair of the Texas Public Utility Commission and the Texas Racing Commission. He also is a former chair of the San Antonio Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Rolando Pablos, welcome to Big City Small Town. Thanks, Bob. Let's start with your personal story, assuming there are members of our audience not familiar with you and your background and and where you're from.

Rolando Pablos [00:01:05]:
Yeah.

Bob Rivard [00:01:06]:
Tell us about, whether you're from San Antonio, where you're from, your origin story.

Rolando Pablos [00:01:11]:
Well, I got here as fast as I could back in 1985. So I've been here, this will be my fortieth year living in San Antonio. But I was born in Mexico. Whereabouts? Sonora. The state of Sonora. That's where my dad's family is from. Okay. I was born to two wonderful parents, both dentists, who wanted to bring their kids to The United States for a better life.

Rolando Pablos [00:01:31]:
So when I was nine years old, we moved from Mexico to Texas, El Paso. And I grew up there. And when I was 17, I moved to San Antonio. I was recruited by St. Mary's. I'd never been to San Antonio. I'd only heard great things about San Antonio. And when I got here, it was that the first day was when my parents dropped me off at Chaminade Hall at St.

Rolando Pablos [00:01:49]:
Mary's, and, I've been here ever since. I fell in love with this place the day I got here.

Bob Rivard [00:01:54]:
Your parents were both dentists? Yes. And was that where you were going? I saw your undergraduate degree was a science degree, so I wondered about that.

Rolando Pablos [00:02:02]:
Yeah. Well, typically in Mexico, you do what your dad does. And yes, my parents steered me in that direction. I have a degree in biology and chemistry from St. Mary's. But I quickly discovered that's not what I wanted to do. So, I went and got an MBA. So I got a degree in business.

Rolando Pablos [00:02:18]:
I got another degree in hospitality. I put myself through school, you know, working in restaurants, worked just odd jobs. And so I discovered that you can get a degree in hotel restaurant management, so I got it. And then I went to law school.

Bob Rivard [00:02:31]:
That's quite an academic trek.

Rolando Pablos [00:02:33]:
I overdid it. You know, the reason my parents brought us here is so we can get a US education, and and I didn't let him down. That's for sure.

Bob Rivard [00:02:40]:
We love stories of, you know, multigenerational success after immigration, and that's at the heart and soul of San Antonio. And I think at a time when immigrants have been vilified and there's just so much hate out there toward the other, that it's important to remember that we're a country built on immigrants, and you're kind of a living example of that as are a couple of other candidates in the race.

Rolando Pablos [00:03:02]:
Totally. You know, I'm one generation removed from a tenant farmer in Sonora. My grandfather was a farmer, and, my my dad had the opportunity to be the first in his family to go to college. And then they they pushed us and so now we're pushing our kids to be better than us and that's what it's all about is continuous improvement, generational improvement and that's what we're focused on.

Bob Rivard [00:03:23]:
Well, that's great.

Rolando Pablos [00:03:24]:
Yeah.

Bob Rivard [00:03:24]:
Why are you running for mayor, Rolando?

Rolando Pablos [00:03:26]:
I really do believe that San Antonio has its best days ahead of it and right now I'm seeing a situation where we're sitting on the side lines. You know, we're in the best economy in the world. Texas is is one of the best economies. We're the seventh largest economy. And when I moved back here from Austin Seven Years ago, six years ago actually, I began to see things that, you know, weren't really to my liking. After having traveled the world promoting Texas, seeing companies come to Texas but not wanting to come to San Antonio, it became clear to me that we weren't doing something right and and I wanna be able to fix it because it continues. We lose companies. We're not really building, an economy the way other cities are.

Rolando Pablos [00:04:05]:
And, frankly, they're eating our lunch, and I wanna change that.

Bob Rivard [00:04:09]:
Secretary of State is, as our friend Eddie Alderete said on his podcast, Beyond the Bite, he described you as, quote, a salesman for Texas, close quotes. And that's kind of a pretty pretty good job description for that. What when you were traveling around and and talking to these companies, and I believe more than a 50 of them have either relocated to Texas or expanded operations into Texas since the pandemic. We've gotten very few of those. We had one major victory last year, which was JCB, the British, heavy equipment manufacturer. But by and large, they've gone to Austin, Dallas, and and then to a lesser degree, Houston. What were you hearing from people about San Antonio? Was it poor education outcomes and workforce issues? Or, what are we what are we missing here?

Rolando Pablos [00:04:57]:
I've been in economic development for twenty five years. I understand how these site selectors, these are the individuals that get hired by companies to find a new place to be. They have a checklist and that checklist is very simple. The first thing on the checklist is they wanna know what the local government is like. And companies want to know if that local government is going to be friendly or not. They also look at our workforce. They want to know if we are going to have a pipeline of qualified workers that are going to suit their needs. Then they look at stuff like infrastructure, electricity, air service, water, crime, public safety and they also look at quality of life issues like education and even recreation, parks, all those things.

Rolando Pablos [00:05:40]:
All those things get put into a formula and San Antonio is not reaching the threshold for acceptance. And so all these companies are going to Dallas and Houston and Austin. Last year, you mentioned one, JCB. Well, Austin has 60 companies. And this is Lou Mormon's, op ed that he put out. Dallas had 40, Houston had 30. So, you know, I'm all about results. So you ask yourself, what are we doing wrong or what do we need to be doing in order to improve our our lot in life? We lost NuStar Energy.

Rolando Pablos [00:06:14]:
You know, we lost AT and T. Remember when Nelson Wolf was County Judge? They left in the middle of the night. So I think since then, we have been kind of in a slide, you know, backward slide in losing these companies and we haven't been able to attract the way other cities are attracting. So we have to do a better job in improving our attractiveness. We have to be able to be attractive in order to attract these companies. And right now, we are sending signals that San Antonio is not open for business, that we're anti business. And those signals are out there. I've gotten push back on that comment, but

Bob Rivard [00:06:49]:
it's Yeah. Give me some examples of that, Rolando, because I wonder how can even the best mayor in the world change that dynamic?

Rolando Pablos [00:06:56]:
The first thing you do is, you know, we have a branding problem. We we go out, a mayor needs to go out into the world and sell San Antonio. Needs to have the experience to be out there, get in front of the right audience, CEOs, you know, directors of private equity firms, all these individuals that make decisions. So you have to be able to sell them on San Antonio and push back on the negativity. Come come with facts. Right now, what's happening is that we're viewed as a city that, is frustrating small businesses. I mean, we can see it with street closures. We are viewed as a city that's fighting with corporations like Southwest Airlines.

Rolando Pablos [00:07:33]:
We're viewed as a city that, chooses ideology over, you know, the betterment of the community. An example would be whenever the Republican National Convention offered to bring the convention here, which was about a half a billion dollar investment, we turned it down. So there's all these signals that are out there, over regulation, that are being sent out. Whereas if you look at Houston, Dallas and Austin, whatever it is that they're doing, they figured out the formula because they're the ones that are attracting all these huge investments and those investments are the ones that are going to create the jobs, that are going to create the quality paychecks that we need in order to lift our standard of living here.

Bob Rivard [00:08:12]:
Rolando, you mentioned ideology and I don't think anybody questions, you know, your resume is deep, there's especially on economic development, jobs, free trade. And we're gonna talk about Mexico because I think the city should be looking much more intensely to the South than than than it is. Mhmm. But, what people worry about is is the elephant getting into the 10, the that your Republican background, the city has been at odds with state elected leaders for probably five legislative sessions now where home rule has been diminished somewhat, whether it's annexation or taxing policies or whatever, where the cities have ceded more control to the state, and that's continuing. People are particularly worried here right now about an initiative, which I believe has governor Abbott's support in the house, to change the nature of, our cyclical bond elections, which is how we use debt in the equity markets to to fund infrastructure improvements. And, the bill would change it from a majority simple majority vote to two thirds of a vote, which seems to be about the state further exercising control over cities when the individual credit agencies have already said San Antonio is solid. And so people worry about governor Abbott's money coming in through a political action committee

Rolando Pablos [00:09:35]:
Mhmm.

Bob Rivard [00:09:36]:
And they don't question your bona fides. They question whether or not we would be electing a partisan mayor, more in sync with state elected leaders than in defending the city and its issues.

Rolando Pablos [00:09:47]:
Right. Well, I hear that all the time. Sure. Let's unpackage that because the first thing that we should look at is who's been in charge decade after decade in this community? And if you start with poverty rates, you know, sixty years ago when I was born, poverty in San Antonio was at 18%. Today, it's at 18%. So the first question you need to be asking is why has nothing changed? Why have we not moved the needle? Those same individuals, those same groups that have been controlling the city decade after decade after decade haven't moved the needle on what is perhaps the most dire situation that we have in our community, which is poverty. You know, poverty is is a root condition that drives all these issues that we have, like crime and homelessness and educational gaps and all those things that are hurting us today. And so the first thing I ask is, why would you look at you know, an ideology or a philosophy that continues to fail? So what I'm proposing is I'm coming in with a different perspective, with a fresh, you know, view of things, which is based on fiscal conservatism.

Rolando Pablos [00:10:51]:
I mean, I am a fiscal conservative. I am 100% in favor of ensuring that our money is being spent well at City Hall. Now my relationship with Governor Abbott, it's a very good relationship. He appointed me to Secretary of State is the highest appointment a governor can make. So he entrusted me with elections. He entrusted me with international relations and economic development. But that doesn't mean that I haven't, you know, disagreed with him. And I think that my opponents are latching on to that aspect to vilify me and saying that I'm going to be his and I've heard this consistently that I'm going to be his puppet.

Rolando Pablos [00:11:27]:
Well first of all, I want everybody to know that I haven't had a single conversation with Governor Abbott about this. I've never I never checked in with him on it, and I still to this day haven't had that conversation.

Bob Rivard [00:11:37]:
It doesn't sound like you need to talk to him. He's funneling the money into you, and and and I just wonder how you feel about do we need to accept, the reality that now in the future local elections will be determined in no small part by outside money. And you're not the only candidate getting it. Right. Gina Ortiz Jones is getting it on the other end of the political spectrum, and and, you know, she's a credible candidate and Yep. And incredible person. But, it it it's almost a it's not so much a partisan question as much as a just our elections now so driven by political action committees that we've got to accept that even in local elections, that's going to be the reality.

Rolando Pablos [00:12:17]:
It's unfortunate because, you know, our forefathers who designed this charter basically designed it to be nonpartisan. Our elections are supposed to be nonpartisan. Right. And there are are people out there who are making it partisan. And my whole perspective from the very beginning has been, we need to check our partisanship at the door. We need to make sure that we focus on those things we can agree on. And right now, we're divided along partisan lines. Now, I have proven myself throughout my career as a person that does not play partisanship.

Rolando Pablos [00:12:48]:
I've never, I've always stayed in my lane. I've never brought in my partisanship into anything I've done. I've never attacked the other side. I've never crossed the line. I've always earned their trust and respect and that's why you mentioned, the group of supporters that I have, it's a broad based coalition. It's not just Republicans. It's individuals who are very pragmatic and understand that we need a mayor that has experience, qualifications in the relationships, because those relationships with Austin and with Washington and Mexico City are perhaps some of the most important, aspects that we're gonna need in in in our next mayor.

Bob Rivard [00:13:27]:
I wonder, as you look at, what's coming down the pipeline from Washington in the way of cuts that are gonna affect everything from our leading education institutions like UT Health San Antonio, UTSA Yeah. But also Southwest Research, Texas Biomed. I heard last week from people in the social safety net world, the Haven for Hope and others that they're they're anticipating cuts, cuts to, MetroHealth. Can we do business at the state and federal level right now, or are we just going to be overwhelmed by decisions being made outside of our our community that are having the kind of impact that makes it impossible to, say, improve those relationships if you were elected?

Rolando Pablos [00:14:10]:
Well, you've just said it. Look, if I were mayor today, I'd be camping out in Washington. I'd be in the West Wing fighting for San Antonio. And I'd get that audience. And that is why it's so important to have somebody with those relationships. Irrespective of whether we agree with the president or the governor, it's about being able to have the access to make a case for San Antonio. Because look, at the state level, John Whitmire in Houston, Kirk Watson in Austin, and Eric Johnson in Dallas have all worked at the capitol. Like me, they all have their relationships.

Rolando Pablos [00:14:42]:
And they're in Austin right now walking the halls, eating our lunch because they have their relationships. They're are Democrats and for some reason, except Eric, they are Democrats, but they get along with the governor. So we are competing with them. And then at the federal level, we are competing with every other city in the nation. So what you want is you want a mayor who can have that access. And like I said, if I were mayor today, I'd be living in Washington today to fight for those, those funds that are being stripped away or at least threatening to be stripped away. You gotta get in there and that's what I will do is I will go fight for San Antonio, you know. And it's not just funds that are being taken away at the federal level.

Rolando Pablos [00:15:22]:
You mentioned Haven for Hope. Haven for Hope lost $2,000,000 when NuStar left philanthropic funds. So, you know, and you go down the line and you see how, our policies, especially for economic development, are hurting our community in many different ways. But look, I would rather have a mayor who can get in and make a case for San Antonio and Austin and in DC than someone who can't even get a meeting.

Bob Rivard [00:15:49]:
Okay.

Rolando Pablos [00:15:49]:
And that's my point.

Bob Rivard [00:15:50]:
I wanna go back to the poverty issue that you raised because I think as the son of immigrants, you would know better than most that San Antonio is a city that by design has has has had decades or even a century or more of economic segregation, with It's racism. I mean, the way white people treated people of color, particularly Mexicans, Mexican Americans, over the over the decades, almost guaranteed that they were gonna be perpetually in in a state of poverty. They didn't even get basic city services, until the mid twentieth century. We have a public education system that's woefully underfunded compared to, the states we're competing with, And also because it's so predicated on ad valorem taxes, you know, your ZIP code matters. So these are historic, inequities that we're having to deal with. One of the things I was hoping under Republican leadership at the state that would happen, with Mike Morath, the Texas Education Agency Commissioner, and others is that we would consolidate public school districts. There's never it's almost it's it's like you can't touch that. It's the third rail or something.

Bob Rivard [00:17:00]:
And and, we haven't made any progress there, and we see the same underperforming school districts, the same politically toxic school boards in some parts of the city, influencing in a very negative way the education outcomes. And so to some degree, I wonder what what the next mayor can do to, reverse those two trends which are so deeply embedded in the city's, you know, historic fabric.

Rolando Pablos [00:17:26]:
Again, the root condition of poverty, you know, is one of these issues is education, our inability to educate our kids. And look, the reality it is that we are Balkanized. We are Balkanized at our school district levels. We've got sixteen, seventeen school districts. So we've been, we've been put in a situation, we put ourselves in a situation to be pitted against each other. We're fighting against each other. You have all these school districts that, you know, aren't performing the way they're supposed to be performing. And then we are also Balkanized at the city level with 10 districts.

Rolando Pablos [00:17:57]:
So we've kind of created a situation where we have, you know, put ourselves in a competitive situation where instead if we consolidate our efforts and then we bring in accountability, we can really make a difference. So as mayor, what I want to do is I want to be in Austin, just like I said earlier, lobbying, pushing for these things, because my solution for poverty eradication includes quality education. It includes aggressive economic development and fiscal responsibility. So that first thing, quality education is the most important. And like I said, my parents brought us here to get an education. I know a lot of people didn't have that advantage where their parents push them towards that, but we've got to make sure that our kids get educated. And you've got an issue here with vouchers and all that. Look, I want to make sure that our schools deliver what they are supposed to deliver, which is quality education.

Rolando Pablos [00:18:54]:
And as mayor, I can affect that, in Austin, in Washington. And at the local level, we can work with school districts in different ways to maybe, you know, defray some of their expenses, so they can then shift those, monies to really bringing up the standard of education.

Bob Rivard [00:19:11]:
Okay. Let's switch gears and talk, free trade, our relationships with both Canada and Mexico. As you've noted, we, we initialed the North American Free Trade Agreement here in 1992 right at the German American School at Yep. Plaza San Antonio on the day I was there. And, you know, historically, we've had a special relationship with Mexico, the city of San Antonio, over the decades. I feel like that's kind of been neglected somewhat. I know people at city hall disagree with me on that, but as you know very well, business in Mexico begins with personal relationships that need to be tended and and, nurtured. You can't just go down for a periodic press conference and expect to accomplish very much.

Bob Rivard [00:19:57]:
But I'm very worried that, president Trump in his first term renegotiated NAFTA. I thought we had a revised, agreement for the twenty first century, but now he's imposing tariffs that on their face appear to be a violation of that agreement. And we're obviously very worried here. We can't make a Toyota Tundra or Sequoia without our friends from Mexico sending up the chassis assembled on trains. We have, many deep relationships between the supplier community in Mexico, and I could go on and on. And I was very surprised to read this recent report you've probably seen from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce that cited the impact that it believes will happen on American cities, and and it put the finger on San Antonio as the number one city. And I was like, what? I need to read this and dive into the data. So I'm very worried about our own economic fortunes going forward and how we preserve those critical relationships both North and South despite what might happen in Washington.

Rolando Pablos [00:20:54]:
I become very cynical when you see these reports because you don't know who's driving them. You don't know what their agenda is. And the first thing we need to analyze is the fact that we are supposed to be the gateway to Mexico.

Bob Rivard [00:21:06]:
Radio doesn't like it when we say that. That's true.

Rolando Pablos [00:21:07]:
Well, I don't care, but we are. And you're absolutely right. We've neglected that, that relationship. Going down to Monterrey on a junket and shaking hands and taking pictures is not developing relationships. You know, I've been working with Mexico and with Mexican businesses and government for twenty five years. I have the relationships at every level, local, state and federal in Mexico. And I understand how the Mexican multinational executives think. And let me tell you, there isn't a single Mexican multinational headquartered in San Antonio.

Rolando Pablos [00:21:42]:
Their U. S. Headquarters are in Dallas, Houston and Austin. And yet they have homes here. They live here, particularly those from Monterey. Mexico will become a world power, even stronger than Germany. Right now it's going through quarantine.

Bob Rivard [00:21:55]:
That's quite a prediction.

Rolando Pablos [00:21:56]:
It is and it's true. You know, they're our number one trade partner, not only with Texas, but we're seeing a situation right now where San Antonio is falling behind. We're losing ground to Austin, Dallas and Houston and even Corpus and El Paso. I went out to El Paso to do economic development ten years ago. I started the Borderplex Alliance. And If you go to El Paso right now, it's on fire. Yeah. They promoted heavily.

Rolando Pablos [00:22:21]:
Yeah. And I got to design the model for the Borderplex Alliance, which was a binational regional economic development organization. While I was there, we created 20,000 jobs and brought in a billion dollars worth of investment. Here in San Antonio, we're not doing a good job at it. If you notice all the truck traffic that's coming up from Laredo, it's no longer coming through San Antonio. It's taking a right hand turn on I-ten and going to Seguin. If you go to Seguin today, that place is on fire. You have warehousing, distribution centers, and manufacturing occurring because now the trucks stop there and they go up SH 130.

Rolando Pablos [00:22:56]:
If you remember, SH 130 was dead a few years ago. Now, it's the hottest, you know, highway in Texas because of Elon's, you know, putting the Tesla factory right on it. And so when we look at H E B, when we look at Valero, just look at those two companies, that are from San Antonio. They rely on Mexican trade all day long. Bolero is selling refined fuels to Mexico and HEB, I mean, they have their own plane that goes back and forth to Monterrey. They have 80 stores in Mexico. They rely on produce coming in. And now going to this tariff issue, look, President Trump is using tariffs as a negotiating tool.

Rolando Pablos [00:23:33]:
A political tool. Political tool. And he's been successful in getting those caravans, those migrant caravans to dissipate. President Obrador used to say there were no fentanyl labs in Mexico, and yet when the tariffs came on, they discovered, like, 80 fentanyl labs all of a sudden. Mexico

Bob Rivard [00:23:52]:
I would argue president Sheinbaum has taken a more sophisticated approach to her international relations than, Amlo. I agree.

Rolando Pablos [00:24:00]:
A %. She's great, but she's also she's also having to fix a lot of those things that Amlo, you know, broke. One of those was saying that, you know, the the the, the cartels didn't have any, they didn't have access to any of the cartels and all of a sudden they produced 30 cartel members and they shipped them to Washington. So kudos to the President for for leveraging that relationship with tariffs. Now I'm not a tariffs guy. I don't believe in tariffs. The reciprocal tariffs only hurt and I think now they've eased up on the USMCA, you know, trade.

Bob Rivard [00:24:34]:
Well, that might be today. Wait wait till tomorrow Yeah. Because I think, they may be an effective negotiating tool for the president, but the collateral damage is gonna be enormous.

Rolando Pablos [00:24:44]:
And and what I don't like about what he's doing is that it's it's it's it's creating nervousness, uncertainty and that's the worst thing you can have for a business because if you're not certain about certain things or about the future, then you're going to make decisions based on today and that nervousness is what really is going to hurt us. So I'm not 100% in favor of what the president is doing. As a matter of fact, I don't like the way he's doing it. But on the negotiating side, on the leveraging, you know, it's working for him. And if it helps our country, and if it doesn't hurt our country, then I'm for it. But I'm beginning to see how it's beginning to splinter a lot of his support because some people believe that it's gonna hurt us. And in San Antonio, I will do everything to protect this community, you know, starting with HEB and with Valero because they're the ones that are doing a lot of business, with Mexico. But I'm all in with Mexico.

Rolando Pablos [00:25:38]:
As mayor, I will make sure that we I will bring in those relationships instantly because I already have them at the highest levels too with Shinebaum, with Eberad. You know, Eberad is now the Commerce Secretary. He's basically the one that's gonna renegotiate USMCA in 'twenty six and I will be there to make sure that San Antonio gets the best deal. And I would love for the signing of the new agreement to happen here in San Antonio.

Bob Rivard [00:26:04]:
Maybe we can host the negotiations again.

Rolando Pablos [00:26:06]:
I will do it. I participated in the previous ones. I mean, I was part of the team that helped renegotiate USMC or NAFTA into USMCA. So I've got that experience and now I will do it with a focus on making sure San Antonio has a seat at the table and a voice in the conversation.

Bob Rivard [00:26:25]:
Project Marvel is actually arguably the most ambitious public private development that I've ever seen proposed in the city. Mhmm. Bigger even than the Western Urban Frost Bank City, p triple p, PPP, which is transforming the Western side of downtown. Mhmm. It calls for a complete remake of the Alamodome. It calls for yet another expansion of the Henry B Gonzales Convention Center, the another convention hotel, and it calls for this entertainment district. And then finally, you know, the centerpiece is the new Spurs Arena. And so I think the the real question for most voters is how we're gonna pay for all of that.

Bob Rivard [00:27:03]:
Can I I didn't even mention the land bridge over to the east side? The Critter Bridge? Well, the Critter Bridge was at Hardberger Park. Oh, I'm just This this one is gonna be for humans. So I did. I did. And you know what? It's gonna cost a lot more than the Critter Bridge cost because moving humans across an expressway is going to be quite a proposition, especially if we're gonna move enough to fill up the Alamodome or or the arena. So I I just wonder, are you all in on that and believe the city can can, has the capacity to undertake that, say, over the next decade? And and, what's your comfort level with how much we ask the public to foot the bill for the arena versus the, the the, shareholders of, the Spurs?

Rolando Pablos [00:27:45]:
I don't like anything about how this whole thing has been handled. It's been mishandled. First of all, whoever packaged this whole thing into a $4,000,000,000 deal made a mistake because that right there raises so many flags for people. To say that the taxpayers are going to cover $4,000,000,000 Right there alone, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You know, when I was on the Public Utility Commission, we had to authorize transmission lines going through people's, you know, property. And if you don't manage expectations the right way early on, those folks are going to come at you. And that's what's happening here. You're forcing the spurs to have, you know, negotiations behind closed doors.

Rolando Pablos [00:28:23]:
You're forcing NDAs. You're not keeping the people informed. They're already tearing the the the the, ITC down and people are like, what's going on? So everybody's in the dark. That's the first thing. That's the first mistake. The second mistake is to say that the arena, is, should be treated in the same package as the entertainment complex. I would separate those two. And as mayor, my job would be to create the right conditions to to to set the stage for private investment to come in and cover all of the entertainment complex, expenses.

Rolando Pablos [00:28:59]:
I've done it for the state of Texas. I've brought in billions of dollars worth of investment through private, capital. That's what that needs, is private capital. The arena itself, you know, the first question I would ask everybody is do we wanna keep the Spurs or not?

Bob Rivard [00:29:13]:
Oh, is that a question we even have to ask in

Rolando Pablos [00:29:15]:
this particular That's a question we have to ask because I'll tell you what.

Bob Rivard [00:29:18]:
It's central to our identity, is it not? It's

Rolando Pablos [00:29:21]:
in our DNA. Seattle played that game with the SuperSonics. I don't know if you remember.

Bob Rivard [00:29:25]:
No, I do. But they refused. They refused to play

Rolando Pablos [00:29:30]:
ball, no pun intended, and they lost. The Sonics got sold and they got moved to Oklahoma City. And by the way, Oklahoma City just approved a PPP for their arena. So they are right now, the Spurs ownership is not the way it's not comprised of the way it used to be where it was mostly all San Antonians. Now you have ownership from Austin. I would hate for us to blink and lose the opportunity to keep the Spurs because I know that Las Vegas wants an NBA team. I know that Austin wants an NBA team. And the discretionary income in Austin is much more than ours.

Rolando Pablos [00:30:09]:
The corporate income or the ability for corporations to buy tickets and suites is much greater in Austin. So we are in a position, where, we could lose the Spurs. And everywhere I travel all over the world, all people knew about San Antonio was the Spurs. I mean, that's the reality of it. So that is in our DNA. That That is our reality. So I ask ourselves, I would ask ourselves, what have the Spartans done for us? What has been their economic impact? And I know it's large. You know, they've delivered on the cultural side.

Rolando Pablos [00:30:40]:
They've delivered championships. They've delivered, you know, everything they're supposed to deliver. But what have they done economically? So that is part of the analysis. Then you look at, well, what's gonna happen with the Frost Bank Center? We gotta take care of that situation. So we have to be able to factor whatever that's going to happen there. Even though it's a county issue, the city has to play ball there. And then now with respect to the arena itself, you just look at best practices. You know, the Moody Center in Austin, that's a PPP.

Rolando Pablos [00:31:10]:
You look at other areas like the, Texas Ranger Stadium, PPP. So all of those have a certain model that has worked for them. All I say is that I would never want to fund this arena with taxpayer money if the taxpayers are gonna get, % return on their investment. They gotta make their money back. You know, if we have to fund it with taxpayer money, I think that the taxpayers should vote on it, first and foremost. And secondly, I would not agree to moving forward with it unless I see clear proof that the taxpayers are going to make their money back. Otherwise, it's on the backs of the taxpayers and that's not fair.

Bob Rivard [00:31:47]:
Obviously, you're an outside candidate. You'd be a change agent. So let's look at a couple of things that we're doing in the city and and, tell me how you, see those from your perspective, and and in the event that that that you're elected. Mayor Nirenberg's signature ready to work program, which voters passed in 2020, and, incidentally, that was for five years. I'm not sure if that automatically renews or or what the status of that is, whether we need to go back to voters. But we spent a couple hundred million dollars on that program. I think we're spending about $35,000,000 a year on that now. And, obviously, it has not achieved, the intended outcomes or the predicted outcomes in either the number of people that are benefiting or what the hourly wages are that the people who do go through the program are actually earning.

Bob Rivard [00:32:35]:
So I think almost every candidate feels like something's got to to change there. And I just wonder how you feel about ready to work.

Rolando Pablos [00:32:41]:
It's a failure. But let me tell you, a couple of weeks ago, I announced my Taxpayer Protection Blueprint, which, not only talks about, you know, freezing property taxes, but it also talks about creating a sunset commission for the city of San Antonio much the way the state has, which is really it's a watchdog agency, an accountability measure where we look at programs, we look at city departments, we look at boards and commissions for effectiveness. And had we had a sunset commission in place for Ready to Work, we would have saved ourselves a lot of headaches because that watchdog agency would have ensured that the program is doing what it was intended to do. And we learned too late that it hasn't been effective. We learned too late that we've spent all that money and we really haven't delivered results. What I would do is go in, take a look at it and if there's any hint that this thing's a failure, I'd take it out. You know, because, it's a lot of money. I never understood why we're training for government jobs.

Rolando Pablos [00:33:43]:
I don't think that was the original intent. But do we need workforce development? Yes. And look, Ron approached me with it whenever I moved back from Austin and I love the idea. It's a great concept. It really is because it uses the money, it's supposed to use the money for improving our workforce, which is what companies look at whenever they want to move here. But it was just completely mismanaged. And right now, you know people are upset about it and I want to go in there. I've also called for a third party audit of all these things we're spending our money on just to look for, you know, wasteful spending or efficiencies that we can bring up.

Rolando Pablos [00:34:19]:
And that's one area that, you know, we need to, what we need to do is we need to institute standards for accountability that we don't have right now and not just for that, but for everything that we're spending our money on at the city level.

Bob Rivard [00:34:32]:
One of his other signature initiatives was the housing bond. Voters in 02/2020, 2022 approved a hundred and $50,000,000 out of the 1,000,000,000 plus bond to go to housing, and that was a first. And, I would say that's been more effectively managed, mostly because the money's going out to private sector partners who are actually handling it that the city's not getting in the business of trying to develop housing on its own. Probably, if we stay with the status quo, there will be a, you know, effort on the part of the next city council to not only include that in the 2027 bond, but probably expand it. And I wonder how you feel about that with with what we all realize is an acute shortage of everything from market rate housing to to workforce housing to affordable housing. Yeah. You know, that is that's a tough situation because we need all

Rolando Pablos [00:35:24]:
of that. All of the above we need. But, I think we need to just like we talked about poverty, we need to go to the root cause of the problem. And here, the root cause of the problem is that people's paychecks aren't going far enough. People aren't able to afford to live in these places. And for many reasons, obviously you have inflation, but you also have high property taxes. There are other circumstances that I think we should address to be able to try to diminish the need for affordable housing. Now, workforce housing is essential, particularly on the North part of town.

Rolando Pablos [00:35:57]:
But it has shown that people aren't happy with, you know, concentrated affordable housing projects in certain areas. So I would move to spreading those out, but still having the availability for workforce housing because there are many, many businesses, particularly on the North Side, that can't hire people because folks just don't want to be on the road for an hour. So we do need to bring that housing closer to that part of town. But people have spoken. They are not going to be in favor of having these concentrated affordable housing projects in their areas. So I propose to look at all the land that CPS, SAWS, the city and the county owns, these little two, three acre patches of land all over. There's thousands of them. And being able to apply a model like we see over at Brooks that gives an incentive to developers to build affordable housing, but more in a spread out way than in a concentrated way.

Rolando Pablos [00:36:56]:
And that I think is a solution. It allays the concerns of these neighborhoods, but it also gives businesses and the individuals an opportunity to live close to their work. So that's a solution that I would put up.

Bob Rivard [00:37:09]:
The NIMBYism that we're seeing, particularly in it tends to be in in the North, eight, nine, and 10 districts, is a conundrum because Brooks is a great model for Leo Gomez, the the CEO out there will tell you that all of that housing has lowered crime rates because there's more people, more economic activity, more jobs, more community. I've heard from everybody from Port San Antonio to the Medical District to say that housing bond needs to concentrate workforce housing where the jobs are

Rolando Pablos [00:37:38]:
That's correct.

Bob Rivard [00:37:38]:
Which is where we are. That's proven to be a difficult approach, and and, if we do extend the bond into 2027, I wonder whether or not you would push those districts, particularly eight, nine, and 10 where there hasn't been much workforce development, to say, you you've got to figure out a way to let people live close to where they work.

Rolando Pablos [00:37:58]:
Yeah. There's no question that we need to have people living close to where they work. I will never carry the water for developers. It's gonna be up to the developers to make the case to these neighborhoods. They've got to be able to go in there and make their case for it. But it is my job as mayor to be able to set the table and create the conditions for productive dialogue, which is what's been lacking. We have to have a productive dialogue where people understand that, well first of all, we dignify people's concerns. And then also people understand that, you know, the workforce housing is essential.

Rolando Pablos [00:38:31]:
But what we're seeing here is we're seeing a situation like we saw in District 10 earlier this year, where people just don't want to have this kind of development in their backyard. But I think it's mostly because we're talking about a concentrated development. But if we apply my model of spreading out the affordable housing into these vacant lots that we have here that are owned by the city and just by government, I think we can, I think we might be able to strike a balance where people don't feel like all of the affordability or affordable housing is concentrated? And that's really what creates this concern. Now whether the concern is real or perceived, you know, I've heard from both sides. People say, well, you know, the whole crime issue is not real and but I wouldn't even want to get into that conversation. Let's just find a solution that everybody can agree on. And I think that if we can find a way where we have sparse development rather than concentrated development, we might be able to achieve the objective. And you give the land away to the developers and that's their delta.

Rolando Pablos [00:39:33]:
That's their margin. That's their profit margin. And that might be able to be a solution. But, it's a tough situation. Every big city faces it, but we need workforce housing. There's no denying it.

Bob Rivard [00:39:46]:
So the third and last, initiative under mayor Nirenberg I wanna talk to you about today, Rolando, was all the way back in 02/2019, city council passed the San Antonio Climate Action and Adaptation Plan. That had a lot of community input, not so much from the business community as we heard after the fact. So there was already attention from the very first moment, after its passage, and I would argue that, since its passage, it's done nothing except gather dust on the shelf and And divide us. Us.

Rolando Pablos [00:40:17]:
What's that? And divide us.

Bob Rivard [00:40:19]:
And divide us. And and, and look, we're divided in general over there are people that are climate change deniers that don't believe anything's changing or that it's not caused by humans, but I think the the the majority of people and certainly people that are, you know, still believe in facts and data can see that it's it's not arguable. It's not debatable that the climate is changing and that we need to respond. Our air quality is diminished here. Traffic congestion is increasing. Greater incidence of asthma among children and adults. We have a, underperforming public transit system that we all wish was better and more effective. So there's a lot on the plate here, and I just wonder whether you would revisit that plan, put a stake through it, and start over, or how do you stand? And we're in a state that subsidizes the oil and gas industry and where there's been recent activities by the Republicans to disincentivize, renewable energy recruitment into the state and expansion.

Bob Rivard [00:41:20]:
So we're gonna have to do what we do on our own. And the question is, what do we do?

Rolando Pablos [00:41:25]:
Well, I would push back a little bit on your comment that the state disincentivizes. You know, under Republican leadership, we became the top state for wind energy. We continue to be the top state. When I was on the Public Utility Commission, you know, we built the CRES lines, the renewable energy zone lines all the way out of the country.

Bob Rivard [00:41:43]:
Why turn our backs on it now and no longer incentivize it? Maybe it's because it's saturated,

Rolando Pablos [00:41:49]:
I don't know. But, and also maybe because, you know, of its inability to be a consistent source of of power. But I believe that we should focus on nuclear. I think, the micro nuclear is a good solution. I'm the only candidate that has experience in utilities and so I can come in and help both, Rudy and Robert,

Bob Rivard [00:42:10]:
in And CPS Energy and SAWS.

Rolando Pablos [00:42:12]:
Yeah. CPS Energy, you know

Bob Rivard [00:42:14]:
That was Rudy Garza and Robert.

Rolando Pablos [00:42:16]:
Rudy Garza. Yeah. Sorry. We're amongst friends here and I assume that everybody knows. Yeah. Look, I have the experience in utilities. And I know what what CPS Energy needs in terms of new transmission and SAWS in terms of water leakage. We're wasting 20,000,000,000 gallons of water a year and that's going to require manpower money.

Rolando Pablos [00:42:35]:
And the money is going to have to come from the federal government because we can't stick it to the rate payers, by just jacking up rates. So, we've got to be able to balance. But going back to the point of the environmental situation, we all want clean air to breathe. We all want clean water. So, we have to be able to protect it. But, we have to be able to strike a balance because it can't be all or none. We can't take out our entire oil and gas industry because this town lives off of oil and gas. There are a lot of jobs, a lot of good jobs that rely on that and this energy transition is not overnight.

Rolando Pablos [00:43:08]:
You know, you hear, you know, by 02/1930, we're not going to, this is a hundred year transition and I'm all for the transition, but it's got to be done in a way where you're not, threatening jobs, you're not threatening the economy. I mean, we are an oil and gas economy in Texas. But we've also done a good job in bringing in renewable energy. I was the sole commissioner on the Public Utilities Commission who pushed for renewables. I worked with CPS Energy when they brought OCI. You know, I believe in that, but you know, renewables are just one component of our fuel mix and we also need to focus on gas, natural gas. There's ways of, you know, controlling those emissions. I want to get rid of coal, but I also want to focus on nuclear.

Rolando Pablos [00:43:52]:
That's the base load that we need. And right now, I'm afraid that we're not keeping up with growth. We're we're chasing growth. We're not we're we're having a difficult time in in getting there. And, we're lacking transmission on the on the, on the energy side. But I believe that I can work very well with Rudy, at CPS Energy, the CEO, and with Robert Puente.

Bob Rivard [00:44:15]:
Well, I think you're the only candidate, Rolando, that I heard, bring up, at least in a contemporary way this this, bedeviling problem of SAWS leakage. Mhmm.

Rolando Pablos [00:44:24]:
And

Bob Rivard [00:44:25]:
we're actually in a ten year consent agreement with the Environmental Protection Agency in Washington to resolve that because there's so much underground leakage through, you know, antiquated sewage infrastructure, etcetera. And so I'm surprised that the level of leakage is continuing at the volume it it has, and I wonder, whether or not you think there's something, institutional in terms of saws or whether they lack the bond, funding to to attack this problem more vigorously. What what what do you think accounts for that? Just kicking the can down the road and and it's not anybody's fault. It's just

Rolando Pablos [00:45:01]:
the fact that these are old pipes. They're leaking. We have hundred year old, and we have hundred year old pipes and maybe some with asbestos, I don't know. And that worries me. But what I would say is, with respect to SAWS, is that we need to once and for all tackle the problem. Just like I said with poverty, we need to stop kicking that can down the road. We've got to fix the problem and in my opinion, the only way we're going to be able to do it is with federal funds. You know, you have 600,000 meters at SAWS.

Rolando Pablos [00:45:35]:
That's about 30,000 to 35,000 gallons per meter. That's like the annual usage for some of these, rate payers. We can't have that. You know, I consider that to be an environmental crisis. We are wasting way too much water.

Bob Rivard [00:45:51]:
We had the senior water engineer, mister Eckhart on, from SAWS and the Edwards, aquifer on very early in this podcast. And and while we talked about that that leakage, he also said that, people, particularly those living in gated communities with automatic irrigation systems, watering non native turf, are accounting for 50% of the water usage in the hottest months of the year. John Dickerson We

Rolando Pablos [00:46:16]:
have to stop vilifying. You know, this is The Us versus them. That's like you. I'm saying his comment is like, that's ridiculous. He's got to recognize that his utility is wasting the most water. And we've got to stop vilifying people. This is exactly what we get into. We get into a situation where it's the yes versus them.

Rolando Pablos [00:46:35]:
Why don't we just say, let's fix the leakage problem and that could eliminate 20,000,000,000 gallons of water. And we're over there worried about somebody, you know, having to comply with their HOA and water their lawn. I mean, come on.

Bob Rivard [00:46:50]:
Doctor. Yeah, the HOAs are part of the problem. Doctor.

Rolando Pablos [00:46:52]:
They sure are. Oh, yes sir. First of all, they force you to have you know, a certain percentage of your property, you know, with turf. It's conformity. Yeah. And then they force you to keep it green or they fine you. And, you know, a lot of us just lose a lot of landscaping because we can't water. And now with these smart meters, you know, they're tracking you all day long.

Rolando Pablos [00:47:16]:
But I think people are pragmatic enough to know that we all need to conserve water. But you can't. You know, gated communities, that's like a beach plant. John Yee Well, we should

Bob Rivard [00:47:25]:
be planting wildscape, native plants.

Rolando Pablos [00:47:29]:
John Yee I agree. Look, I grew up in El Paso. We had lava rock in our front yard. John Yee

Bob Rivard [00:47:33]:
I don't think we have to go that far. John Yee We

Rolando Pablos [00:47:34]:
don't have to go that far here. But no, no, of course. But it's it's it's a concerted effort. But but, you know, it's those messages that irritate people and then they they they identify a certain group of our population and vilify them. Like, we can't have that. I mean, that's come on.

Bob Rivard [00:47:52]:
I don't like going to neighborhoods, Rolando, where I have to show a picture ID to get in. We're we're nearing the end of our time here, and, I wanna give you the last word. It's been a good conversation, but, we're trying to do forty five minutes for every candidate and keep it equal. So, you know, help us bring it to a close here.

Rolando Pablos [00:48:11]:
Well, first of all, I wanna thank you. It's been a long time. I'm glad we came together today.

Bob Rivard [00:48:16]:
Me too.

Rolando Pablos [00:48:16]:
we have a choice to make here in a couple of weeks. Is do we want to do we believe that we're better off or not and do we want to continue down the same path of decade after decade of broken promises? Or do we want to try something new, something fresh, something that is focused on, you know, cleaning up what we have, but also addressing the tough issues like poverty. I think it's time that we address poverty. And I have a plan. And anyone who tells you, any of the candidates who tell you that they're going to fix crime and homelessness, they're not going to be able to do that unless they have a poverty eradication plan like mine. And mine involves aggressive economic development, quality education, and fiscal responsibility. That's like that's like the trifecta right there. If we can focus on those things, then we can start addressing all of the systemic problems that we have.

Rolando Pablos [00:49:08]:
But if we don't educate our kids, if we don't watch the money we're spending at city hall, and most importantly, if, you know, we continue down the same road with, the same philosophy, the same thinking, then we're going to get in trouble. We have five candidates right now who have had an opportunity. They sat on city council and yet they talk about all the great things they will do, when in fact, it's like, well what have you been doing? You've been there for eight or six years or whatever it is and we continue to have the results that we have. And I I I just I don't think that that's right. But, you know, I'm looking forward to, making sure that San Antonio, heads in the right direction and and I can bring that to a head.

Bob Rivard [00:49:48]:
Well, Rolando Pavlos, thanks for coming on to Big City, Small Town. Thanks, Bob. Appreciate it. Please share this episode with friends and colleagues, and do sign up for our new newsletter, Monday Musings. Big City Small Town is brought to you by Western Urban, building the city our children wanna call home, and Geekdom, where startups are born and smart ideas become businesses. Our producer is Corey Eames, video by Erica Rempel, sound engineering by Alfie de la Garza of Sound Crane Audio. We will see you next week.