112. San Antonio's Culinary Legacy: 25 Years of Biga on the Banks

Bob Rivard [00:00:03]:
Welcome to Big City Small Town, the weekly podcast all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Rivard. Biga on the Banks, a great restaurant long before San Antonio had very many great restaurants or much of a restaurant scene at all, turns a venerable 25 years old this month at its location at the former San Antonio Library, now International Center on the Riverwalk. It's a milestone few high performing restaurants attain in here or anywhere. Culinary excellence is a calling that requires passionate commitments from the chef, the owners, the bartenders, the key employees in the kitchen and the front of the house, serving and taking care of the guests. And in a business with very thin profit margins, it has to succeed as a business too. VEGA has done it all, even as it served over the years as a springboard for some of San Antonio's most accomplished chefs who served their formative learning years alongside and under chef Bruce Ott, who joins us in the big city small town studio today. And Bruce is joined by his business partner in front of the house, right hand, Perny Shea.

Bob Rivard [00:01:13]:
Bruce and Perny, welcome to Big City Small Town.

Perny Shea [00:01:16]:
Glad to be here. Thanks.

Bob Rivard [00:01:18]:
Well, we're excited to have you here, and we're gonna talk about a lot of things, San Antonio's culinary history as well as its contemporary situation, how we became a UNESCO city of gastronomy, the Biga origin story, and how the two of you came together from other restaurants in the city to form your long lasting partnership. How are you guys going to celebrate this big anniversary?

Perny Shea [00:01:41]:
Well, what we decided we wanted to do is something that would be more a celebration for our investors and regulars than for our staff. We'll probably do their party later or later that evening. So we will be closed to regular business for the evening, and we will have a fundraiser and that's going to be benefiting the San Antonio Food Bank and St Philip's Culinary and Hospitality School. So we felt that was a good combination to reach people in our industry and people that can benefit from that. So that was a decision. They were both on board straight away that they would do that. So the we'll be closed for the evening and then

Bob Rivard [00:02:24]:
What evening are we talking about now?

Perny Shea [00:02:26]:
The evening April 22. It's Earth Day. And it's a Tuesday break right before Fiesta

Bob Rivard [00:02:33]:
Okay.

Perny Shea [00:02:33]:
And right after Easter. So it gives us a little breathing time there. And the whole dining room and private dining area will be put aside. There'll be chef's stations. We are asking all our alumni chef

Bob Rivard [00:02:48]:
to come in. Gonna be interesting. I'm when when when Bruce talks, I wanna hear some of those names. But how many chairs is that, Ernie? How many people can be seated for dinner?

Perny Shea [00:02:56]:
Seated. But if you're standing, mixing, we have got a few tables for sale at a premium just so that we can give more money to the, beneficiaries, and also to, give some of our older clientele a place to make their home for the evening.

Bruce Auden [00:03:13]:
You're

Bob Rivard [00:03:13]:
not looking at me when you

Bruce Auden [00:03:14]:
say that, are you?

Perny Shea [00:03:15]:
Certainly did not. Believe me.

Bob Rivard [00:03:17]:
Just checking.

Perny Shea [00:03:18]:
But yeah. So that will be all the savory courses, probably about eight chefs down there. And then we'll have a silent auction, all food and beverage related. And then go up to the Third Floor. We have a wonderful room up on the Third Floor that we rent from the city. We are city tenants because our building was the old public library.

Bob Rivard [00:03:39]:
That's right.

Perny Shea [00:03:40]:
And so it has a huge deck outside, 2,500 square feet deck. And so that's lovely. You can be outside overlooking the river. And the most fun part of the evening, as far as I'm concerned, is we will be having a dance up there as a celebration. So pastry chefs will be up there, And then I think the best DJ in town, JJ Lopez

Bruce Auden [00:04:02]:
Okay.

Perny Shea [00:04:03]:
Who's a program manager at the at KRTU. That's right. And is a super guy and does all soul and groove and funk. So that's that's gonna be a blowout at the end of the evening.

Bob Rivard [00:04:18]:
Wow. So dinner, lots of chefs that you can meet and greet and hang out with and then party and dance.

Perny Shea [00:04:26]:
Dance it off.

Bob Rivard [00:04:27]:
And we wanna go. So where do we and everyone else go to get a ticket?

Perny Shea [00:04:31]:
I'm glad you asked. So just go to the Beaker website on the homepage. There is a click here that will take you to an OpenTable link, and all the tickets are booked through OpenTable.

Bob Rivard [00:04:42]:
Alright.

Perny Shea [00:04:42]:
So then after that we get all the money in, we hope, we will, you know, take out just costs. Obviously, we've got to pay staff. But I think a lot of our purveyors will actually give us product for twenty five years of business. I think they can give us an evening.

Bob Rivard [00:04:58]:
Absolutely.

Perny Shea [00:04:59]:
And, and then we'll just split it equally between Foodbank and Saint Philip's.

Bob Rivard [00:05:04]:
Well, we're gonna talk a little bit more about that event, and I'll put the details in my newsletter for people listening that, wanna have a link or whatever to get to the tickets. But I wanna share with, our listeners first and people watching us on YouTube how you two came together and how you came to San Antonio. So who wants to go first with their origin story? Bruce?

Bruce Auden [00:05:24]:
How did I come here? Oh, yeah. So I came here to open the Fairmont Hotel, and that was back in, like, eighteen hundreds or something. It's like I don't remember the exact date, but it was the '9

Bob Rivard [00:05:35]:
In the nineteen eighties. Was it not?

Bruce Auden [00:05:37]:
Yeah. I guess so. And you're I came here to open the Fairmont Hotel, which was a unique opportunity for me, and met a lot of great people from the kitchen who went with me from the Fairmont to open the first bigger, which was in the Monte Vista area and on Locust Street. And we had a good run there. It was nine years, which is pretty good for a restaurant. You know?

Bob Rivard [00:06:07]:
I remember it well. You were in a historic house that had been converted to a restaurant and a bakery.

Bruce Auden [00:06:12]:
Yeah. My wife, Deborah, did the bakery at the back and which was pretty cool. You could come in the back door for your breads and see the kitchen working from there. And then me and my manager, John, we run the the dining room. And at that time, one of the chefs who's gonna be with us that night, Mark Bliss, he was not only a chef there, but a source of amusement every day.

Bob Rivard [00:06:36]:
Guitarist, surfer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Perny Shea [00:06:37]:
We which Mark's showing up today.

Bob Rivard [00:06:41]:
And then the the city, as you said, decided to build a new public library. That became the city's so called international center on the Riverwalk, and that's where you guys moved early February, Bruce? Or

Bruce Auden [00:06:54]:
Yeah. We opened in I can remember this because it was February, so I don't have to do any math.

Bob Rivard [00:07:01]:
Yeah. That's right. Viga's more than twenty five years. You're just 25 in your current state. That's a remarkable run-in the restaurant business. It really is.

Bruce Auden [00:07:08]:
Yeah. Don't don't jinx it. No.

Bob Rivard [00:07:10]:
I'm not going to. We're gonna help you get get on your way to the next twenty five. And, Oh, no. Please.

Bruce Auden [00:07:16]:
Where Head up already.

Bob Rivard [00:07:19]:
Where where did you move here from, Bruce?

Bruce Auden [00:07:21]:
I was in Dallas, and I went to Houston, and then recruited by the investor, the Fairmont, to come here.

Bob Rivard [00:07:29]:
Because I wanna share I came here for a job interview with, the publisher of the San Antonio Light, a guy named George Irish, wonderful man who unfortunately passed away prematurely a few years ago. I was working and living and dining all over the world for Newsweek magazine, managing its bureaus all over the world. And I came here. My wife wanted to move back with our babies to Texas. And George took me to Polo's at the Fairmount for dinner. I mentioned to him, you know, George, I can eat anywhere in New York and all over the place. This is really good. And, you know, at the time, I think the word southwestern had just creeped into the culinary vocabulary.

Bob Rivard [00:08:05]:
And then you came out, and I met you at that dinner. And then I took the job and moved here in 'eighty nine in December.

Bruce Auden [00:08:13]:
Saying I had something to do with that.

Bob Rivard [00:08:14]:
Well, I I I said to, you asked me in front of George what brought me to San Antonio. You won't remember this, but I remember kind of thinking, should I tell him the truth? And I said, well, I'm here for a job interview to become the deputy editor of the light, and you walked away after a minute or two, and George goes, well, I guess I've gotta give you the job now. You've told somebody, and everybody's gonna hear about it. So

Perny Shea [00:08:39]:
Oh, because he's such a big talker.

Bob Rivard [00:08:41]:
He was he was he was joking, but that was my first meal in, in San Antonio, what, almost forty years ago, Bruce. So thanks for that. Good story. I I hope I hope George tipped well. And, Pernie, I wanna hear your origin story.

Perny Shea [00:08:56]:
Well, I came to San Antonio originally as an exchange student. I was an American field service student. So you get to come and live in America with a family for a year.

Bob Rivard [00:09:06]:
From where?

Perny Shea [00:09:06]:
Well, I was from England also. Okay. Sorry. I thought that was a

Bob Rivard [00:09:09]:
because you guys have a funny Texas accent. Yeah.

Perny Shea [00:09:10]:
Yeah. And my year was up in Independence, Missouri, and I came to San Antonio for two weeks and it was Fiesta.

Bruce Auden [00:09:18]:
And I

Perny Shea [00:09:18]:
thought, now this is a lot more like it instead of Independence, Missouri.

Bob Rivard [00:09:22]:
What year was this, Pernie?

Perny Shea [00:09:24]:
That would have been '76.

Bob Rivard [00:09:26]:
Oh, wow.

Perny Shea [00:09:27]:
The spring of seventy six. Yep. Because we got to stay a bit longer because it was bicentennial year. So I decided when I came back to The States, it would be to San Antonio and not to Independence. And it was a very easy town to fit it. And it felt like I said, small it is a small town in lots of ways. I've never worked outside the loop. Sorry.

Perny Shea [00:09:48]:
But that's this is the hood that I know and get to know a lot of people. And over the years, restaurant business, you meet a lot of people. At time, as you're younger, you're very good at remembering names and places and who you know from where. That may have slipped quite a bit recently. But, I'd been managing different restaurants. I was at Josephine Street. I was at Luna Norte. So all well known places in in but very different styles.

Perny Shea [00:10:20]:
And then when Bruce was getting talking about bigger, we got together and thought or we thought it would be kind of fun to have another Brit. At least we get each other's jokes, you know, and maybe some of the food we we and we still, most afternoons, have a cup of tea, Three 03:30 ish.

Bob Rivard [00:10:40]:
How quaint.

Perny Shea [00:10:40]:
Yeah. Well, we're yeah. But Bruce is very cautious. He has a little tiny espresso one. I have a giant mug. But, it it's just been a terrific ride for us down on the river. It's a part of the river. It's a bit more serene.

Perny Shea [00:10:54]:
You're off that main loop. But we still get the benefit of the visitors who are here to have fun, the convention people who are doing their business. And for locals, we're often a very special event place. We do a lot of pre theater and pre show. But it's, we're very lucky in that we have people that have worked with us for twenty five years. That's remarkable. Actually, you've you've got two from Old Bega. The the GM and his main Jeff are from Old Beaker.

Perny Shea [00:11:26]:
But to have those same people that you work with all the time and you know what's going on with people, you have such trust in how you're being represented and how people are being greeted and treated when they're there. So I as I say, it's not world peace, but it's very good to know that people are happy with the way they've spent their money and have celebrated occasions with you that they'll remember for a long time.

Bob Rivard [00:11:51]:
I actually think your location where you're hanging out over the river, above the river, is, much more civilized. I when I have a nice meal, I really don't want a parade of people coming between my table and and the water, which which happens. And, actually, one of the best kept secrets are the several tables that you have on that outdoor balcony Yeah. Because they're above the fray, but they're beautiful on a good good night weather.

Perny Shea [00:12:15]:
The best view of the Tower Life Building too. So as the light changes at night, that has just a wonderful golden glow by the the gargoyles. It's it's a terrific building. Looking at that one is lovely to be in the heart of the river.

Bob Rivard [00:12:31]:
The time I mentioned to Bruce when we first met him and I came for my first meal here in 1989, I actually moved here in December, and people of a certain age will remember that was one of the fiercest winters in contemporary history history in San Antonio. It wasn't the biggest snowstorm they had in the eighties, but it was a very big snowstorm with snow on the ground. And I was living by myself in the Plaza San Antonio while my wife and the babies were back east still. And I would go to the Josephine Bar and Grill, which had been recommended to me with my book, and you were the manager and would let me have my supper and then sit there for two or three hours because it was warm in there and read my book and just I had nothing else to do. So my story is almost as old as my Bruce Sodden story, and it's great to see you both still thriving together.

Perny Shea [00:13:16]:
And you probably met most of the local characters in San Antonio just by being at Josephine Street. Because that it was

Bob Rivard [00:13:23]:
If they weren't there, they were next door at Liberty Bot in the day.

Perny Shea [00:13:26]:
Yep. Those are that was a great combo.

Bob Rivard [00:13:28]:
Bruce, let's talk about the many people that you've mentored and and those among them that will be at the anniversary dinner and and manning a station or womaning a station. And and I'd love to hear whether you could tell at a certain point that some of them had enough talent to go all the way to become their own chefs and chef owners.

Bruce Auden [00:13:49]:
Definitely, a lot of them could. Sometimes it's not the actual direction that people in the kitchen want to go to because that's there's a lot more than just cooking when you have your own restaurant and being a chef, and it's great to see. And if somebody left and said, oh, you know, I've got a better opportunity coming up either as a sous chef or a chef, that was always great to hear. That made you feel good. You had to replace them, but, and find someone else, but that was always good. When I started to make the list of all the people that have been through and now are still in the business, I started off with, oh, 10. That's easy. Oh, yeah.

Bruce Auden [00:14:29]:
And then there. And then somebody else just say, remember so and so. Like, no. I don't remember that, but now I do. So there was so many to choose from. The way we actually asked them to come back was I just asked quite a few, and if they responded and they all responded yes. If they responded, then great. You're in.

Bruce Auden [00:14:52]:
And if the email bounced back or the phone number bounced back, it's like, oh, well, too late.

Perny Shea [00:14:58]:
But, you don't

Bruce Auden [00:14:59]:
so who is coming? Let's see. Well, it Mark Bliss, obviously, because Mark and I worked so long together, and he now has Bliss Restaurant.

Bob Rivard [00:15:08]:
Down in Southtown? Yep. Very popular, very successful.

Bruce Auden [00:15:11]:
Yes. And he's I think he's been there probably thirteen years or something like that.

Perny Shea [00:15:17]:
I think they're fifteen.

Bob Rivard [00:15:18]:
Fifteen. In what was a former abandoned service station? Right. Yeah.

Bruce Auden [00:15:22]:
Yeah. And he has Beautiful space. Similar similar way I think of upgrading a restaurant that I do because so many of his staff have been there for so long, including Tony, a chef. He'll be there. The ski season's over, so he might be there. And then who do we have? We have Felice from Clementine. She worked when they first got to town to when John was opening Luke, she was looking for a pastry position because she'd been working in pastries for quite a while. So she worked with us for a little over a year.

Bruce Auden [00:16:00]:
Robert Cantu.

Bob Rivard [00:16:01]:
Well, I would just say if people have not been to Clementine or don't know about it, it's wonderful. It's in Castle Hills, which is not a culinary center, and it's actually in a strip center. So it's unassuming looking, but it's a superb place to go for dinner. And I I only lament that after the pandemic, they didn't open back up for lunch because it was a great lunch

Perny Shea [00:16:21]:
thing out. Do one or two a month.

Bob Rivard [00:16:23]:
Do they?

Perny Shea [00:16:23]:
Stay in tune with their Facebook and Instagram because they will open up once or twice a month. I know they're gonna do some during final four.

Bruce Auden [00:16:31]:
Oh, good.

Perny Shea [00:16:31]:
And they'll also do afternoon teas on occasion.

Bob Rivard [00:16:34]:
Oh, there you go. That that's that's near and dear to your heart.

Perny Shea [00:16:36]:
Yes.

Bob Rivard [00:16:36]:
It does. So, okay. Next.

Bruce Auden [00:16:39]:
Sometimes on that note, when you start having children, you cut down the hours. Yeah. This one happens in a lot of restaurants. So Robert Cantu is coming. He's at one across from La Manchion, La Macara.

Bob Rivard [00:16:52]:
La Macara.

Bruce Auden [00:16:53]:
Yeah. Let's see. Jeff Jeff White.

Bob Rivard [00:16:56]:
Is that still a seafood restaurant? You know

Perny Shea [00:16:58]:
what? Ostra.

Bruce Auden [00:17:00]:
Ostra. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't ask me about restaurants other than my own.

Bob Rivard [00:17:06]:
You go home at night. Yeah.

Bruce Auden [00:17:07]:
I do go home at night.

Perny Shea [00:17:08]:
I moved to the Brian's.

Bruce Auden [00:17:10]:
Brian Randolph at Valencia. He was our private dining chef for a number of years. Brian West, who has Brian West catering. In fact, I just saw something on social media. He's doing a spring menu. I'm not sure where it is. This is one of his venues, and you can buy tickets online now, and it looked like a great menu.

Bob Rivard [00:17:32]:
Was Andrew Wiseman in your kitchen?

Bruce Auden [00:17:34]:
He he's been in the kitchen, but he's never worked in it. Okay. He'll be there as a guest, but he never worked through the kitchen.

Bob Rivard [00:17:43]:
How about Jason Dady?

Bruce Auden [00:17:45]:
No. Same thing.

Bob Rivard [00:17:46]:
Same thing. How about the chef, first name was Michael, I believe, that took over Polo after he left?

Perny Shea [00:17:51]:
No. Bumburg?

Bruce Auden [00:17:52]:
Oh, Michael Bumburg? Yeah. Where is he? I yeah. I thought he had left before that. He went down to the Four Seasons then. Mike Bumburg, is he coming? I can't remember.

Perny Shea [00:18:03]:
He he's incredibly busy. You know? They have Spice and Life Catering and does an incredible job out of their venue, which used to be Jason Davies' place, the Old Castle.

Bruce Auden [00:18:13]:
Right.

Perny Shea [00:18:13]:
So on a Tuesday, we might get him. On a Saturday, Friday, Saturday, we wouldn't he'd be too busy for us. But

Bruce Auden [00:18:20]:
And then he and as he had all those great jobs in Open Spice of Life that's I mean, I've actually worked in the Beaker Kitchen after that. But, again, lots of people are in there.

Bob Rivard [00:18:32]:
Do you think you're a natural born teacher, Bruce?

Bruce Auden [00:18:35]:
Oh, no. Well, there

Bob Rivard [00:18:36]:
was something going on in that kitchen beyond the chef stereotypical chef yelling and everything that one hears about a fast paced kitchen. But, obviously, a lot of people felt like they were in the right place to learn how to do it themselves someday, not just be line cooks or sous chefs.

Bruce Auden [00:18:51]:
But I think it's probably the same in a lot of different industries. It's interviewing the right people. Mhmm. And I could I've hired some people that have never cooked before, and they just you could tell the determination that they're gonna do something. Now that brings to mind somebody else who's coming in, Tricia. She was my chef at Ordon's Kitchen.

Bob Rivard [00:19:13]:
Last name?

Perny Shea [00:19:14]:
Yes. Wankers.

Bob Rivard [00:19:15]:
That was

Bruce Auden [00:19:15]:
her maiden name. Maiden name.

Bob Rivard [00:19:17]:
Well done. Okay.

Perny Shea [00:19:18]:
Between the two of us, we can get

Bruce Auden [00:19:19]:
a name right now and again. That's right. We both pay it, not just one. So she said and, again, I forget a lot of things, but she said she applied for the position and really had very little experience. And I said, yeah. You're gonna work saute. And saute is, you know, somewhat thought of at the most difficult position in the kitchen. And I put her on that station, and she did fantastic.

Bruce Auden [00:19:47]:
And then after that, when we opened Holden's kitchen, Stone Oak, she was my chef. So it's a lot about the what you see in a person, not if they're a good cook, maybe good manager, but it's more about what you see as the potential that they have and what they're looking for.

Bob Rivard [00:20:08]:
So you don't necessarily look to see whether or not somebody's resume says the Culinary Institute of America or another elite.

Bruce Auden [00:20:15]:
I don't hold that against them.

Bob Rivard [00:20:19]:
I walked right into

Bruce Auden [00:20:20]:
that one. No. It's great if they've been it's great if they've been to the school, and they even wanted they're more eager for a job because they've got so many expenses they have to pay off.

Bob Rivard [00:20:31]:
They're they're college debt.

Bruce Auden [00:20:33]:
Yeah. But, no, I've had people that have just thought they wanted to get into the business, and, you know, I always try to persuade them not to. And then if they keep at it, I'll give them a job. So

Bob Rivard [00:20:45]:
When we talk about the years that you guys showed up to San Antonio, we're a little bit more than double the size population wise that we were when I came in '89. It's just remarkable the pace of growth, and it's if anything, it's accelerated. It's not slowing down. And I wonder what you think about the culinary scene now and compared to when you first got here and whether how surprising has it been, or has it been such organic growth over the years that it all fits?

Bruce Auden [00:21:12]:
I think the people that brought me down here and opened the Fairmont Hotel had a lot to do with changing the culinary scene. It didn't matter if it was gonna be me or some other chef came in. They really had a focus on what they wanted to do, which was not unlike in other cities, Dallas, Houston, on the coast. So they they knew what they wanted to do. And then, you know, when we, as a team, set sort of a benchmark there, then it encouraged people to come in and see what we're doing. It encouraged young cook chefs to come into San Antonio and and work at different places. So they had a big, lot to do with it. So I owe a lot to them, and I think San Antonio owes a lot to them.

Bruce Auden [00:22:03]:
But after that, you know, when you get it it did get, like you say, organic. You get people like Andrew and Jason and with all this energy and wanting to be the best and the top of that profession, and it's great. You just see that happening. So many restaurants now compared to when we we came here. You could, again, you could pick up Texas Monthly and count the number of restaurants, and they didn't just list the expensive restaurants. They did the burgers and the, The

Bob Rivard [00:22:36]:
tacos and Yeah.

Bruce Auden [00:22:37]:
And all the ethnic foods. And I think I went to every ethnic restaurant in San Antonio when I got here. Now you can do that in a year. There's just so many. So it's great to see it grow. It's growing differently than, say, Austin, which I think I prefer our growth and Austin's growth.

Bob Rivard [00:22:57]:
Well, we don't have the economy and the the the population with disposable income that Austin has, and so you could go up there and have to wait for a table on a Monday or Tuesday night. And that's not but here, a lot of places just don't even open at, or at least not after the pandemic. I also feel like you better save your money if you're going to Austin because it doesn't feel like Texas anymore. You know, I see people all the time that are adding to San Antonio's talent pool who have been priced out of Austin, and we're happy to have them. But it's a very different world. And you can go on Second Street in Austin and spend you feel like you're in Beverly Hills or somewhere when the check comes. I wanna talk a little bit about the business of restaurants with you and how it changed in the pandemic. And one of the questions I always have for people that are successful in your field is how you're keeping good staffs together.

Bob Rivard [00:23:48]:
During the pandemic, we saw a huge exodus of people out of the hospitality industry. And, of course, the convention business shut down, and, you know, it was not a good time. People realized they might be working long hours. They might be not getting benefits. Their wages might be lower than they felt they were. And so people just left the industry. And yet there are these places like yours, and I've talked to other restauranteurs who have loyal staffs that did stick around. What are you doing differently than everybody else? Or what do you think is the solution if you talk to somebody who's in your business and is not doing as well as you are with staff stability and loyalty and and and quality.

Bob Rivard [00:24:30]:
What what advice do you have for him?

Bob Rivard [00:24:32]:
Well, it was definitely hard after COVID. We, like so many other restaurants, thought, you know, no way we can get through this and stay open and or open again, but we did with some help from some people. But the best thing that came out of COVID for the our industry is that the wages went to a decent wage. And, you know, we didn't pay kitchen staff as much as they were worth before COVID because, you know, it was standard around on in the in the industry. But now, if you go for a job in a kitchen, you're gonna be able to get a decent wage unlike before. So that's definitely the best thing. And it keeps people around now. They're not gonna a lot of the times, people would leave, oh, I can get a dollar extra at this chain restaurant that just opened or something an hour, but it's not quite like that now.

Bruce Auden [00:25:37]:
I think everybody in the business will say it's hard to get staff that are gonna stay with you for a while. But right now, we got a great kitchen staff, great front of house staff, management. I've been there quite a few years now, everybody from the bar, the front of the house, the kitchen.

Bob Rivard [00:25:56]:
So I've known some of your waiters, I'm gonna say, for twenty years plus.

Bruce Auden [00:26:00]:
Twenty five is Yeah. Too. Ben and And Chris. Chris have been there for twenty five years. Yeah. And they will probably be there for another twenty five years because they're still in great shape.

Perny Shea [00:26:11]:
And it's, you we have certain groups of clientele, the people that have been coming forever. They will only have that person wait on them. They would rather wait for a table. Obviously, they've reserved. We have the notes, and we always know they've got to be at a certain table with a certain waiter. And we'll call them if that waiter is not on the schedule that night and let them know because their experience is driven by the people that are taking care of them that night.

Bob Rivard [00:26:40]:
So you're keeping files on us.

Perny Shea [00:26:41]:
Oh, absolutely. We got good good records.

Bob Rivard [00:26:43]:
Is that typical in the industry at at at higher performing restaurants, or is that something new or unusual?

Perny Shea [00:26:49]:
I think that you the more information you have on a patron's likes, dislikes, preferences, the better job you're gonna do for them. I mean and that's what we want to do is have you leave happy at the end of your meal. And if it a certain personality matches with you better than someone else, we want to know that, you know, so we don't put you with someone that's maybe more formal and you like a more chatty, friendly form of service. So there's a whole range. And we've got a whole range of people that are very classically trained as wait staff, and some that just wing it. And and there's someone for everyone. And and having that good match is very important to how an evening goes.

Bob Rivard [00:27:33]:
So was the decision made, Bruce, that, look, we're gonna have to raise prices here to take better care of the employees. There's just no way around it. And, of course, we had quite an inflationary period and still feeling the aftereffects of that after the pandemic. And so the price of everything went up. And

Perny Shea [00:27:50]:
We don't open for brunch, though.

Bob Rivard [00:27:51]:
Is that right?

Perny Shea [00:27:52]:
Not usually no. We don't do a lot of egg service. So that's one of the things that

Bob Rivard [00:27:56]:
much profit in brunch?

Perny Shea [00:27:58]:
We love doing brunch for a while, but then we're in a fortunate position that our private dining part of the business became so successful that we could cut out day hours. And so our staff is just happier, not working doubles, etcetera.

Bruce Auden [00:28:14]:
I think that if every restaurant had put up their menu prices in comparison with their Casa, everybody would be overpriced, and we just couldn't do it. So the profit margin had to go down a bit because we couldn't charge what's

Bob Rivard [00:28:32]:
You couldn't pass along all that cost.

Bruce Auden [00:28:34]:
All that. No. And then more wages, price of even the to go boxes, things like that, everything went up so much. And you can't just say, okay. I'm gonna raise another heavy entree another $5. I think we're we're very reasonable for what we're doing. And like you're talking about other cities, Austin, Dallas, you know, price point is a lot lower than theirs.

Bob Rivard [00:29:02]:
I wanna ask you whether or not it really means anything that we're a UNESCO city of gastronomy. And I wonder, because you are downtown, that not only do you have your loyal, base of of local clients, customers, but, people coming in from elsewhere. Do you ever hear somebody say, I guess I would call them a culinary visitor or tourist, that they're here because they've read about San Antonio or that status?

Perny Shea [00:29:28]:
I don't think we've really had that. Do you?

Bruce Auden [00:29:31]:
Yeah. We have. A bit? We get Bernie goes home at 06:00.

Perny Shea [00:29:37]:
Unless there's a really big event going on.

Bob Rivard [00:29:39]:
The truth is coming out here slowly but surely.

Bruce Auden [00:29:42]:
I My new job is to talk to more people in the front of the restaurant now because I've got such a good team in the in the back. So, yeah, once you start talking to people, you find out that they've heard about the culinary scene in San Antonio, Pacifica, or they went to another restaurant, like, maybe Clementine, and then they suggested they come down and we do exactly the same thing. You don't expect to see people two days in a row, but sometimes they do. So we're always giving them recommendations of other places. But, yeah, people come now, especially this time of year. People are coming into town to eat around and to, obviously, take in the sights that we have.

Perny Shea [00:30:29]:
And I think that what Bruce is saying about one restaurant referring to another restaurant, I think San Antonio is quite unusual in that, in that we're very supportive of each other. You know, we're not the right match for everybody, but we know somebody who is. So that's been, I think, the the nice we're not a cutthroat bunch of people in the in the industry. We would rather bring other people up. And the more the more restaurants we have, the more quality restaurants we have, it's better for everybody. And we all benefit from that.

Bob Rivard [00:31:04]:
Amen. Yep. We just had the leadership of San Antonio Sports in the podcast studio. They're days away from the final four. Do you welcome those events, or are they so overwhelming you kinda wish they weren't happening?

Perny Shea [00:31:17]:
No. We absolutely love them. Okay.

Bob Rivard [00:31:20]:
So you'll you'll be busy.

Perny Shea [00:31:22]:
We'll be busy. There are so many corporate groups that do things, and everyone's vying for space. And then it's very unusual business because some of these people don't know if they're coming to town.

Bob Rivard [00:31:34]:
Nobody knows it yet. Right?

Perny Shea [00:31:35]:
Thousands of people from one area to come, you know, to these events. And they were sort of, yeah, we'd like to, but we can't commit. And so we will find out what our business end business is like two days before, just like everybody else. Absolutely. And then it's a mad scramble.

Bob Rivard [00:31:55]:
Yeah. But you'll do, you'll have people trying to buy the restaurant out night after night while the, the teams are in town and the all the corporate sponsors and so forth.

Perny Shea [00:32:04]:
We will have a night or two of buyouts. Yes. But otherwise, we'll be doing our events up on that Third Floor room that we have. That's one we rent from the city, and we can seat 200 up there. So most of these things are mingle and network, and they all want to be in front of each other all the time, and a lot of fun. They're final four people are really fun. I mean, they're here to have a good time, support their team, they explore the city, they're spending money, and they're pleasant. And if we have weather like we've got right now, they are in hog heaven.

Bob Rivard [00:32:38]:
Especially especially if they're from a university city in the North Exactly. Where Midwest where it's still winter.

Perny Shea [00:32:44]:
They're so happy roaming around in their shorts and T shirts.

Bruce Auden [00:32:46]:
It's quite It's funny how you put that question because we can look at it in two different ways. You know? Front of the house, back of the house.

Perny Shea [00:32:53]:
Yeah.

Bruce Auden [00:32:53]:
Front of the house, I think, oh, great. More tips. Back of the house, oh, we're gonna work six six days a week. We gotta it's just gonna be exhausting, and, you know, you get the same pay. That's just the way it is. We don't some restaurants, all the tips go everywhere, but the way

Bob Rivard [00:33:12]:
Pooling hasn't really worked out real well, though, Bruce, has it, in the industry?

Bruce Auden [00:33:16]:
Certain certain pooling, like, the whole of the dining room, as long as they're a team, obviously, every waiter thinks they're the best waiter in the room.

Bob Rivard [00:33:23]:
And that's why they're getting the most tips.

Bruce Auden [00:33:25]:
Yeah. And it's funny. They all get they're all the best, and they all get the most tips. So that's the way it goes. But it it's a lot of work for the back of the house, for the kitchen, for everybody else, but I don't think that's always appreciated. So April is whenever we have a final four or even a regional tournament here in

Bob Rivard [00:33:48]:
the city, April becomes a crazy month because you usually have Easter in the spring break.

Bruce Auden [00:33:53]:
Mhmm.

Bob Rivard [00:33:53]:
And you usually have spring break now seems to last three or four weeks when you add it all up. And then we have Fiesta. And in my experience, there's two kinds of San Antonians during Fiesta. There's the insane metal collectors and Cascarone breakers, and then there's people going, I wanna get out of here for ten days.

Perny Shea [00:34:10]:
Yeah.

Bob Rivard [00:34:11]:
So what's Fiesta like for a downtown restaurant?

Perny Shea [00:34:14]:
I don't think we see a lot of locals other than river parade night. We have a lot of groups coming in and people that come to the same place every year, same table, pretty much. You know, this that's their tradition, and that's where they want to spend the time. And that's great. And then we've got some corporate groups that entertain. The rest of it is usually a bit slow because, sort of regulars often don't want to come downtown and deal with the traffic. And most a lot

Bob Rivard [00:34:43]:
of the regulars will come in and have a

Perny Shea [00:34:44]:
drink and then go get a turkey leg. But for you know, so you know, so there's a range. There there are mariachi boats going around as well, those evenings, which is really lovely for the visitors. They can sit on that on that balcony and just be serenaded, you know, as the boats floats along. So I think we can do more local business if people weren't so scared to come downtown. And parking is not that bad.

Bob Rivard [00:35:11]:
No. It isn't. But that's a really dated complaint in my mind. There's never been more parking down here. Last night, you know, my wife and I parked free. We went out, and it's Tuesday night, and all the public parking is free.

Perny Shea [00:35:23]:
That's why our party's on a Tuesday night too.

Bob Rivard [00:35:25]:
Well, there's another reason to go. And, actually, we're we're coming up here on time, and I thought what we would do is end the way we started and let you plug the event one more time for people that might not be listening to the whole podcast. But April 22, which is a Tuesday, and they can go on biga.com and look for the tickets and decide whether or not they wanna join in the celebrations for twenty five years. Right?

Perny Shea [00:35:49]:
Absolutely. I think it will be a really fun evening. It's it's a beautiful venue. If you haven't been there in the evening when the light goes down, it's a charming room. We're very fortunate with our location. The city have been great landlords. And, we we just wanna celebrate that we've managed to get to twenty five years. We planned to do a twentieth, and that was COVID.

Perny Shea [00:36:12]:
About two weeks later, we were closed down just like everybody else.

Bob Rivard [00:36:16]:
This is delayed gratification.

Perny Shea [00:36:18]:
We gotta make up for it now.

Bob Rivard [00:36:20]:
Well, you guys treated me so nicely in 1989 in very separate

Bruce Auden [00:36:24]:
ways. Places.

Bob Rivard [00:36:25]:
And, you know, my family, we celebrated both of our boys' high school graduations at Big on the Banks and have had many good nights there, and we look forward to seeing you April 22. So congratulations, and thanks for coming on to Big City, Small Town. Thank you.

Perny Shea [00:36:39]:
Thank you. Lovely to talk with you.

Bob Rivard [00:36:44]:
Please share this episode with friends and colleagues, and do sign up for Monday Musings, our weekly newsletter at bigcitysmalltown.com. Big City, Small Town is brought to you by Western Urban, building the city our children want to call home, and Geekdom, where startups are born and smart ideas become businesses. Our producer is Corey Eames, video by Erica Rempel, and sound engineering by Alfie de la Garza of Sound Crane Audio. We will see you next week.