108. What It Takes to Host the Final Four—Inside San Antonio’s Big Moment

Bob Rivard [00:00:03]:
Welcome to Big City, Small Town, the weekly podcast all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Rivard. March Madness kicked off selection Sunday one week ago, and 68 teams across the country are now on the court for round one. In case you don't have a bracket or have somehow missed the news, we are fourteen days, yes, two weeks away from San Antonio hosting the twenty twenty five final four. The dates are April. And if you didn't live here the last time the city hosted the final four in 02/2018, fasten your seat belts. There is nothing quite like it. Our guests today are Elena Wells, vice president of national events at San Antonio Sports and the executive director of the San Antonio Local Organizing Committee.

Bob Rivard [00:00:50]:
That means she's in charge of this big dance, one that's been in the making for years. And Jenny Karnes, president and CEO of San Antonio Sports, whose mission is to transform this community through sports. And oh, what an impact San Antonio Sports has had on this city over the last three decades plus. Jenny started as a UIW graduate and intern at San Antonio Sports in 1999, and over the years worked her way up to the very top. That's another way of saying she's done every job there is to do here. Elena and Jenny, welcome to Big City, Small Town.

Jenny Carnes [00:01:24]:
Thanks for having

Bob Rivard [00:01:25]:
us. Alright. Who wants to go first and tell our audience exactly what's about to happen downtown and beyond come April?

Jenny Carnes [00:01:31]:
I'll give that to Elena. This is her baby.

Elena Wells [00:01:34]:
I'm happy to. You know, we're excited. Not only is it the pinnacle of basket the college basketball world that's coming to San Antonio, but so much more, for the community. Downtown is gonna transform into, a fan festival, all all around, the convention center in the Alamodome with events every day starting on Friday, April 4 through Monday, April 7. There's a four day fan festival inside the convention center, a new four day watch party of the games inside Civic Park, and At Hemisphere? At Hemisphere. Yep.

Jenny Carnes [00:02:08]:
And To include the women's games.

Elena Wells [00:02:10]:
That's right.

Jenny Carnes [00:02:10]:
I always have to point that out.

Elena Wells [00:02:11]:
For the first time.

Bob Rivard [00:02:12]:
Yeah. And we'll talk about the women too today, not just the men.

Elena Wells [00:02:15]:
Yep. And then a three day music festival called the March Madness Music Festival that will also be in Hemisphere in Tower Park. Most of these events are free to the public to enjoy and will just turn San Antonio into a great party.

Bob Rivard [00:02:29]:
Well, speaking of music, let me ask an old guy question. How big are the names of the performers that are coming? I read them, totally clueless, and I want and I know it's free, which I find remarkable. And I just attended the Tejano Music Award, festival at Civic Park and was amazed at the turnout there. So who are people coming to see, and how big of names are those?

Elena Wells [00:02:50]:
Yeah. So Friday night is, headlined by, Pitbull.

Bob Rivard [00:02:55]:
I know that one.

Elena Wells [00:02:56]:
Yeah. Hopefully. And, he's got some opening acts that are pretty popular, and I'm I hope I say this right. Do Dochi, who is a Grammy award winner this past year, and then another up and coming artist, by the name of Raven.

Jenny Carnes [00:03:11]:
I don't know what his name. I don't know if you remember that. That's where I'm I'm too old too.

Elena Wells [00:03:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. And then Saturday night, they will have the headliner of Jelly Roll. So I get we get a little preview of the Alamodome show that's coming in May, with Post Malone. So Jelly Roll will be there, and then, he'll have T Pain as his opening act. And then on Sunday is, Chris Stapleton, our headliner. So excited for that. Benson Boone, who's an exciting, nominee for Grammys, new artist, role.

Elena Wells [00:03:45]:
And then, the Brothers Osborne and Nathaniel Ratliff in the night sweats. So great.

Bob Rivard [00:03:51]:
Alright. Let me check-in with my younger colleagues here. Corey Ames, our producer, and Erica Rempel, our videographer. Are those big names?

Jenny Carnes [00:03:58]:
Yeah. Now, yeah.

Bob Rivard [00:03:59]:
Yeah. Pretty good. Okay. Great. We'll go from there. Alright. For people that aren't basketball fans, Jenny, we start out with 68 university and college teams across the country. And the goal is to be one of the final four, one of the four teams left standing that'll actually come to San Antonio.

Bob Rivard [00:04:17]:
And those teams will all attract thousands of their fans, right? I mean, how does that work in terms of tickets and what we anticipate in people coming into San Antonio to support their alma maters, either as students or graduates alumni?

Jenny Carnes [00:04:32]:
Well, I first, I would have to say, you don't have to be a basketball fan to be a March Madness fan.

Bob Rivard [00:04:37]:
Okay. This is one of

Jenny Carnes [00:04:37]:
the greatest sporting events in the world. And just the excitement of filling out your bracket and watching the tournament unfold. But, what is interesting for hosting, this year and every year we've hosted is to watch the bracket unfold and who's gonna actually make it to San Antonio. The NCAA reserves a team allotment of tickets, and the the turnover from when they qualify either Saturday or Sunday the weekend before to when they arrive on Wednesday is a mad dash for these teams to to get ready to assign tickets out to their boosters and alumni. I think a lot of teams have this down if they've been there before, like a Duke or Kentucky or Yukon. But when you get a team like we did in 2018 with Loyola, who's never been there before, it's it's really a learning process for them. And so they need a little more coaching. They need a little more help from their local team host, but that's what makes it magical to have a team that you never would expect qualify.

Bob Rivard [00:05:35]:
But locals can go as well. Right?

Jenny Carnes [00:05:37]:
Oh, absolutely.

Bob Rivard [00:05:38]:
So how does that how does that work? Let's just say someone's listening going, you know, I think I probably wanna go to one of those like a Super Bowl. How do I get my tickets?

Jenny Carnes [00:05:45]:
Well, get your wallet out, first of all. The NCAA has a couple of different options. They work with a a third party hospitality company to to sell hospitality packages called On Location. So if you really wanna go at a high level and include some pregame parties, you can still buy packages right now. You can also utilize the NCA ticket exchange. A lot of ticket tickets move around during this time. If your team maybe didn't make the bracket, during selection Sunday, folks might already have purchased tickets, so they might put them on the exchange. So there's options out there, and you'll see the prices fluctuate, between now and then depending on the teams that continue to advance.

Jenny Carnes [00:06:25]:
But there's

Bob Rivard [00:06:26]:
definitely opportunities. What tell me the difference between legitimate resale and scalping on the street because we all know four teams are gonna come, but two are gonna get knocked out right away. And you have all those fans that had tickets and including the the the marching bands or the performing bands for both universities that sit under the baskets and probably account for a couple hundred on each side. So for the final game, all those fans from those losing universities don't necessarily stick around or wanna attend the game. So how what happens to those tickets, and how do they how does somebody say, well, maybe I just wanna go to the final?

Jenny Carnes [00:07:02]:
Well, that's one of the best, kept secrets. I mean, if you really know how to get a good ticket to the national championship game, there is a lot of ticket movement. A lot of folks go home after their teams lose in the semifinals, and hopefully, they're playing by the rules and putting their tickets back on the officially on the NCAA ticket exchange. We know there's a lot of movie, moving tickets through third parties that, aren't exactly official. Elena oversees a program called the Clean Zone. She can talk about that. But, yeah, go ahead.

Elena Wells [00:07:32]:
Well and it's different now, because there's no physical printed tickets anymore. Oh. So I didn't know that.

Bob Rivard [00:07:38]:
I am getting old.

Elena Wells [00:07:39]:
Yeah. It's digital tickets through Ticketmaster. So I think the old, image of, you know, when after on Saturday, after a team loses, you see all the fans rush down to that section to, like, make the ticket purchase for better seats or or other seats or people outside. It's a little different now because it's all transferred through Ticketmaster and the digital platform. So, you know, I would say, you know, buyer beware. Obviously, make sure you're getting the those legit, tickets, but that'll definitely happen, through there just more electronically.

Bob Rivard [00:08:11]:
So the, the legitimate ticket holder who no longer is interested in the rest of the tournament, has to designate a replacement person to Ticketmaster digitally, and then the tickets are transferred by Ticketmaster to that person, that can, I guess, happen instantaneously while you stand there with $800 in cash out or whatever?

Elena Wells [00:08:34]:
Yeah. I mean, I would definitely make sure that the transfer goes through. And, yeah, that's how it works these days.

Bob Rivard [00:08:40]:
Well, that's intimidating. I'm not sure. I'm up

Elena Wells [00:08:41]:
to the It's so much better

Jenny Carnes [00:08:42]:
and easier. What what Elena described, it used to almost be a dangerous situation when fans would flood, through the the stands, and you could see it physically happening. And the the bleachers are rocking because there's so many people trying to get a a cheaper ticket to Monday night. So this is much improved.

Bob Rivard [00:09:00]:
Well, that's that's incredible. Spoiler alert. I've got my bracket here, and, I'm going to if you don't wanna hear this, just tune out for a minute because I've got the four I've got the four teams coming, and, I picked some I picked some upsets. I have not picked, Corey Aames Gonzaga. He's an alum, to go all the way, but I think Texas Tech fans are gonna be very surprised that I'm picking them to make it all the way against Duke, even though they're gonna lose in the finals. So are you guys allowed to make picks, or is that not cool?

Jenny Carnes [00:09:34]:
No. We are. I'm I'm doing a a bracket video later this morning to show my picks. I actually have Duke winning it all as well. I think Cooper Flag makes a a recovery. I wish he'd sit in the first game, to rest the injury, but I think they they're gonna go all the way this year.

Elena Wells [00:09:50]:
Yeah. I think, what's interesting about your bracket here with, Texas Tech is in 2018, they were also on the bubble to come to San Antonio for

Bob Rivard [00:10:01]:
the

Elena Wells [00:10:01]:
final four. So they made it into the Elite Eight. And that was one of those years where we started getting those calls about, the impact of a Texas team coming into the city. And, you know, normally, we plan ahead. We reserve spaces for alumni events and pep rallies for all these schools that are coming. But that year, they were looking for a pep rally spot to hold 10 to 15,000 people, which are like, oh, that's where all the fan events are. So we were, looking for that. So it'll be interesting.

Bob Rivard [00:10:29]:
That's a good problem to have.

Elena Wells [00:10:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. If your prediction comes true, or in my bracket, I have Houston, going into the semifinals. That'll also bring some of the same challenges and opportunities, I think.

Bob Rivard [00:10:44]:
Let's let's share with our audience the process that you go through as organizations to compete with other cities and and, nonprofit sports foundations and so forth to compete for, the men's final four, the women's final four, and not just those events, but the regional events that are now, right now, about to unfold in other cities. But those are also really big events when you capture a regional, and you guys are working years and years in advance. I think right now you might be working on, bids for the early thirties.

Jenny Carnes [00:11:17]:
We started the bid for this cycle to be awarded 2025 in 2017. So we were bidding while we were preparing to host. And, it's it's a year long process from commitment documents, and then you go through hotel commitments, bringing your hotel inventory online. The budget is probably the the first and foremost as a part of the process, and then showing the venue and what the venue can do, the venues surrounding the the playing facility, and what the destination can offer to the final four. So we were awarded the summer of twenty eighteen. And I like to say that how we performed during the last final four was our true bid. And this this can be said, yeah, as the saying that 2025 is our bid for the next cycle, which will be '32 through '36.

Bob Rivard [00:12:07]:
And this is Jenny, this is our third final four. Right? This

Jenny Carnes [00:12:10]:
is our fifth. For men's.

Bob Rivard [00:12:12]:
Oh, fifth.

Jenny Carnes [00:12:13]:
Yes.

Bob Rivard [00:12:13]:
The first one was?

Jenny Carnes [00:12:14]:
Nineteen ninety eight.

Bob Rivard [00:12:15]:
Ninety '8. Wow. Can you guys remember the teams? I think Oregon, North Carolina state.

Jenny Carnes [00:12:21]:
No. No? You're gonna challenge me. If Pat Frost were here, he'd rattle them off. But I think we had Kentucky.

Bob Rivard [00:12:27]:
There you go.

Elena Wells [00:12:29]:
Utah?

Bob Rivard [00:12:30]:
Utah. Yep. I think Utah might have won it all. Right?

Jenny Carnes [00:12:33]:
No. No. Kentucky? No. Not that year. We were still in college Okay. At that time.

Elena Wells [00:12:38]:
Jenny volunteered. Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny Carnes [00:12:40]:
But after 04/08/2018, so this will be our fifth.

Bob Rivard [00:12:44]:
Okay. Yeah. Why why do you have to go through all that? Everybody knows San Antonio is the city with the river walk where you don't have to rent a car once you're downtown. You can walk to the Alamodome. It is the Alamodome. It's been there since '93. What what keeps changing that you have to pitch the city and sort of, I don't know, re represent our assets and and and, I guess, listen to the NCAA and what they say are are deficits?

Jenny Carnes [00:13:11]:
You wanna take that? Or

Elena Wells [00:13:12]:
Yeah. I mean, so there are 10 cities outside of San Antonio that can host a final four. And just two years ago, there were eight cities. So new buildings are coming online, that are shine the shiny penny. So we're we're competing against that. Las Vegas is one of those that has a final four in 2028, recently announced. And then Nashville's gonna open up a new stadium here soon, so they'll be into the mix as a new stadium new city.

Bob Rivard [00:13:43]:
So that's what it's all about is the venue more than anything else?

Elena Wells [00:13:46]:
I think the NCAA prioritizes the venue. They certainly, look at all the other factors like the fan events. Walkability is definitely in San Antonio's favor. And we've been to other final four cities where you don't have that walkability and the experience is not the same. In San Antonio, you feel the final four. If you're downtown, the fans are shouting at each other across the river walk, and you just feel it in the atmosphere. In Phoenix, it's a little different. Their venue is 16 miles from downtown, and their events are more spread out.

Elena Wells [00:14:16]:
They can host them all beautifully. They've got great facilities, but they just don't have that compact footprint that we have. So that that's what keeps us competitive, in that. And then, you know, the the newer cities, like a Nashville, is definitely a big competition for us because they have that walkability plus a new new building.

Bob Rivard [00:14:35]:
When you talk to fans from other cities that have come here, they all universally say the same thing. It's the experience on the Riverwalk, which becomes almost claustrophobic with its density of of college students who, in the main, are having a lot of fun in their sort of competitiveness. And sometimes it gets out of control. But mostly, it's really been a wonderful scene down there, and it's unlike anything, even more than the Christmas holidays or anything. It's

Jenny Carnes [00:14:58]:
If it was a fan vote that awarded the next cycle of final fours, we would win hands down every time.

Bob Rivard [00:15:04]:
So people have seen the city undertake these major capital improvements to the Alamodome, both of you guys' office at the Alamodome. What is it that we keep needing to do episodically? And the city now is talking about the Project Marble plan, which would bring the Spurs down back to hemisphere in a new arena, but they've also talked about major expansions of the convention center, a new hotel, and the Alamodome. And as we were talking before the broadcast, the predicted price to rebuild the Alamodome or reinvent it would be about a billion dollars, and this is to a facility that costs less than 200,000,000 to build in the early nineties. What is it that we want that stadium to be that it isn't? So if we're looking for example, ahead to 2030, the early 2030s for those bids, What do we need to do to it to really be competitive with Las Vegas and Nashville and other cities?

Elena Wells [00:16:00]:
Well, so each year we've bid on a final four, we've made a commitment to the NCAA to make improvements to the Alamo Dome required for the event. So if you'll recall in 2018, that investment was around expanding the concourses. Because when you seat 70,000 for a basketball game, you, increase the amount of people on the, main plaza level, and need to be able to have the walkways, to be able to accommodate that. So that was the big commitment then. The commitment that the city made to the NCAA for this final four was the addition, and completion of the suites, on the club level to meet the NCAA's minimum standards. So each year, we've made that investment into the Alamodome to keep it, in line with and competitive. Yep. And so I think that's just the the continuation of that.

Elena Wells [00:16:49]:
And looking at these new, new venues, the NCAA is definitely revenue driven, I would say much more than they have been in the past. And, so they are evaluating cost of tickets, cost of hospitality, and how they can generate more revenue out of out of venues. So that makes a difference, when we look at the future of the dome and what we would have to offer, in future years.

Bob Rivard [00:17:15]:
So I've never been to a Super Bowl, but I have been to some World Cup finals and, you know, you can start at $5,000 if you want to attend. What are the economics for a fan to attend the final four without the corporate sponsorship programs or anything that you mentioned earlier? But if somebody just wants to get into the mix and buy for some tickets now, what are they likely to cost?

Jenny Carnes [00:17:36]:
Great question. Question. I think it depends on the avenue in which you can buy tickets. So if you if your team makes it and you have an opportunity to buy through your, as an alumni, you can buy at face value. Those start in the upper level this year at

Elena Wells [00:17:52]:
300.

Jenny Carnes [00:17:52]:
3 hundred. And go down to or go up from there as you go into the lower level, $6.50, and then up to a thousand for more of the premier seats. Those tickets at face value are really hard to come by. You have to know somebody. You have to be a part of the host committee. But then, you know, as we talked earlier, there are opportunities to to buy tickets officially through the NCA. And then it just goes up incrementally on how you wanna experience the weekend. And then of course, you know, how many margaritas you wanna drink on the Riverwalk.

Jenny Carnes [00:18:21]:
And, there's a four night minimum if you're staying in one of the official hotels as a part of the NCA block downtown. So you've gotta take that into consideration with probably a $250 average room night, maybe plus plus on that.

Bob Rivard [00:18:35]:
Yeah. I would think you're a little low there, generally.

Jenny Carnes [00:18:38]:
Maybe that's on $4.10. That's a pretty pretty pandemic. Not a a cheap weekend if you're traveling here to San Antonio, but I mean, certainly more affordable than going to some other cities.

Bob Rivard [00:18:48]:
And what what's the economic impact for the city? Because the NCA wants to make its fair share of the pie, but so do we as a city. We wanna we want these events to have a major economic impact, and then and I think most economists agree they do.

Elena Wells [00:19:02]:
Yeah. And that's why we host one of the major reasons. So we're projecting an economic impact of about $440,000,000 for this year's final four, and that's generated over four days. So yeah. And that anticipates about a hundred thousand out of town visitors coming in. And then in addition to just our locals coming down and hopefully enjoying all the events and festivities and coming into downtown, but that's, huge for our city, and our economy. And then on top of that, there's just millions upon millions of dollars in spending from, Turner, CBS, the, all the broadcast partners and all the partners that the NCAA brings with them.

Jenny Carnes [00:19:43]:
And I and I think also to add to that, the number that really cannot be quantified is the media exposure for our city as a destination. We always say it's advertising that the city or visit San Antonio just can't afford to buy. So they've been talking about the road to San Antonio since the tip-off of this college basketball season, and we'll be front and center for the entire week of final four and really all of March Madness.

Elena Wells [00:20:06]:
And, yeah, on top of that, we'll have, major network broadcast sets in downtown. So college game day is gonna be broadcasting from downtown for all four days. CBS Sports and TNT, Sports, they'll do their pregame broadcast from Civic Park in the tip-off tailgate, and then they'll broadcast throughout. And then we'll get all the conference networks, that'll pop up sets. So it's great to have that, you know, kinda constant advertising for those four days that we really can't measure.

Bob Rivard [00:20:37]:
Well, both of you strike me as unreasonably calm fourteen days out, and I I was expecting much more stress here in the podcast studio. And, Elena, I'll ask you, really since 02/2012, the city has recognized that we're one of the fastest growing cities in the country, and we've, we've dramatically increased the amount of capital infrastructure improvements we're doing. And if you look look right now, of course, one of the biggest projects on the drawing board or underway is the airport. And so 90% of, unless we get a Texas team or whatever, people are coming in on airplanes, not in cars. And then downtown, we have this major renovation, really redesign of South Alamo Street. We just opened, phase two of Civic Park, so that's finished. And that that, that proved itself at the Tejano Festival very nicely. But next to it is the Monarch Hotel, which won't be done till, I think, either late twenty twenty six or '27.

Bob Rivard [00:21:37]:
You've got the empty space along Market Street where I hope, we eventually get multifamily, but that's uncertain. So there's still some fences up, and and, I looked at South Alamo last night knowing you guys were gonna be in the studio, to my neighborhood going, it just doesn't look to me like they can get this done in two weeks. But you're smiling. So tell you think the footprint's gonna be we're gonna put our best foot forward, or are we gonna look like a city that's under construction?

Elena Wells [00:22:06]:
No. I think we're gonna put our best foot forward. I think the best part about big city, small town is that we come together and get stuff done. And all of our city partners are working, around the clock to make sure that we're shining and ready for all of these fans and visitors. So I know that Alamo Street looks, a little rough right now, but that's because they've increased the the amount of work getting done so that they can open that up for final four weekend. We're gonna, add some, wider pedestrian pathways on Alamo Street. It's still gonna have the same southbound, vehicle lane, but a lot of that construction's gonna be consolidated to some smaller areas for the event, so that we can, put our best, foot forward for for all of these, events. Yeah.

Elena Wells [00:23:02]:
And and some things will still be there. And, I mean, it's the sign of progress. Right? We're growing, and we can't stop that growth. But, the city's been really great partners in helping us to work around it, so that we can build a a really great footprint that's safe, for people to walk around and that looks beautiful.

Bob Rivard [00:23:18]:
It's interesting to think about the fact that in in bidding for the early, twenty thirties, hemisphere, as dramatically as it's been transformed after fifty years of neglect, is going to look nothing like it looks today. I mean, there is going to be such profound change at Hemisphere 1 way or the other as the federal government releases those properties to either the city or the private sector for redevelopment as Project Marble and whatever final shape it takes, it's going to be, the whole Tower Park area, which is yet to be done. And again, on Market Street, it's really gonna be we're gonna be able to present ourselves as a much more dramatic downtown, five years from now.

Elena Wells [00:23:58]:
Well, and you'll get a preview of that during final four in Tower Park because, we have put in, some grass for the music festival. So when you come down there, the actual music festival is what we know, is kind of in the shadow of the tower between the tower and the ITC, or the Institute of Texts and Cultures, that parking lot there. So right now there's grass growing. It's beautiful. I got a great, sunrise picture of it this morning. And so people will be able to come down and see what that area will look like, and feel like in a park setting, hopefully with, an arena behind it.

Bob Rivard [00:24:35]:
I told the, literally and figuratively, the architect of the hemisphere redevelopment, Andrei Sandujar, when they did phase one of Civic Park that that grass would never last. But it's remarkable how well that lawn has endured some of these major music festivals and other events there, and it it looks beautiful.

Elena Wells [00:24:53]:
They take very good care of it, and we are also taking very good care of it with all the events we're putting on it.

Bob Rivard [00:25:00]:
Well, here's a question I didn't necessarily wanna have to ask you but feel compelled to ask in this day and age that we live in, and that is about security. And how do you how do you get your arms around that? I know you I'm sure you're working with the the city of San Antonio's police department and Bexar County Sheriffs and maybe even some federal authorities. But, security today must be very different, say, than in the nineties when we were first starting to host these kind of events.

Elena Wells [00:25:28]:
Yeah. It's a top priority for the NCAA on on any given year. So, you know, part of what we work through for the entire year starting in June is we start with that footprint and how we make it secure. So every event has security screening. Every event has, hard barriers, so that we can prevent, as much as yeah. Vehicle intrusions and and those things. So that's a focus, throughout the event planning and one of the biggest areas that we work on, as a city with the NCAA and their consultants, with SAPD leading the charge in that, and then they pull in all the other agencies. So, we have taken all of the precautions and are hopefully prepared as much as possible.

Elena Wells [00:26:18]:
Obviously, there's unpredictable things that happen, but it is a safe environment. Every person that comes to an event goes through security screening. There's a clear bag policy. So if you are coming to an event,

Bob Rivard [00:26:33]:
No purses?

Elena Wells [00:26:34]:
No purses. No backpack. No backpacks. Yep. And and I think that's been the change since 2018. That was relatively new. So what we experienced was, you know, people would show up and with their bags, and sometimes they would just leave them at the at the door because they couldn't get in. But now that that's pretty much the standard at stadiums and arenas across the country, It's people are more used to it.

Elena Wells [00:26:58]:
But, you can if you're downtown, you might be able to snag a final four clear bag. They'll have some of those out, and about for people to to get a hold of, and bring into the event. So

Bob Rivard [00:27:11]:
Well, we've always, get given people a very a very, safe experience and pleasant experience in this city on events of this of this scale. And so I'm confident we can do it again, but I am aware of the fact that every every year, it seems, we need to up the security and and and and think about once unimaginable events and how to how to make sure they don't occur. But we we said at the beginning we were gonna talk about women's basketball and not just men's basketball. And as a, loyal road runner, UTSA fan, I must say, the women's team has kept me very excited all season long, and I was disappointed to see them lose one big game that that cost them entree into the national tournament, but they're in an alternative tournament. And, Jenny, your your alma mater, UIW, is also in postseason play. So what's up with women?

Jenny Carnes [00:28:03]:
Well, we were so excited to see coach Aston as she continues to build the UTSA program, have the season that they did. I think everyone's still a little heartbroken that they lost in the in the first round of the tournament and, unfortunately, didn't get, the nod from the NCAA women's committee to make the the big dance. But we're looking forward to watching how they progress to the WBIT tournament after getting, an invitation to participate there. And then as you said, my cardinals from the University of the Incarnate Award also making their first appearance in the WNIT after, a winning season.

Bob Rivard [00:28:38]:
Give us that acronym now because that's changed from what we used to call the tournament. Right?

Jenny Carnes [00:28:43]:
The WNIT? The WBIT. Yeah. I I guess that's a new we're learning about it.

Bob Rivard [00:28:47]:
The WNIT. The WNIT. Invitational tournament. It used to be called NIT, National Invitational Tournament. Right? Or WNIT. Mhmm.

Elena Wells [00:28:55]:
Yeah. So I guess

Jenny Carnes [00:28:56]:
it's one, maybe one level higher, probably.

Bob Rivard [00:28:58]:
Who who is hosting that this year?

Jenny Carnes [00:29:00]:
It moves around. It's it's, I think, based on the high seed.

Bob Rivard [00:29:04]:
Okay. And and who's hosting the women's final four for the NCAA?

Elena Wells [00:29:08]:
It's in Tampa.

Bob Rivard [00:29:08]:
That's in Tampa. Yeah. Okay.

Elena Wells [00:29:10]:
So one of the things we're excited about in in Civic Park, we're gonna have, this tip-off tailgate. In other markets, they do it out at the venue to get ticketed fans, in before tip-off. But here in San Antonio, since we're so compact, and Civic Park is just a great asset for the city, we're gonna put up a huge, screen and do watch parties, for both the men's and women's tournament. If you can believe this, this will be the first time that there will be a women's watch party at the men's final four and vice versa. The first time they're gonna do a men's watch party at the women's final four.

Bob Rivard [00:29:46]:
Right.

Jenny Carnes [00:29:46]:
An official. I mean, we we go to the final four every year. And just I would say over the past five or six years, we always find a place to watch the women's semis and finals. And just the excitement that has built around the popularity of the the growth of the sport and watching all these men in a bar, you know, stop talking, stop hanging out, and they're they're paying attention to the TV. So it's been incredible. And I think the momentum will continue, as we prepare to host the women's here in 2029. San Antonio has been one of the most successful women's final four hosts, over the past twenty five years.

Bob Rivard [00:30:20]:
How do you measure that, Jenny?

Jenny Carnes [00:30:22]:
Attendance. We and we still hold the all time women's final four attendance record, which stands from 2,002. We had a very successful How

Bob Rivard [00:30:31]:
big was it?

Jenny Carnes [00:30:31]:
Twenty nine thousand six hundred and nineteen. I'll I'll have that memorized until the day I die. But, you know, we had a very different experience hosting the women's in 2021, which was the the COVID bubble year

Bob Rivard [00:30:43]:
Right.

Jenny Carnes [00:30:44]:
And had all 64 teams here. So our joke is we hold the highest attendance record and probably the lowest as well with restricted seating. But we're really excited about '29 because our our goal is to to break our own record and have thirty, thirty five thousand plus in the Alamo Dome.

Bob Rivard [00:31:01]:
Wow. That's exciting. And besides these two final fours, what is the prospect for getting a regional tournament here? And and is that the same bidding process? And

Elena Wells [00:31:12]:
it's a little different. We actually have one. We were awarded, just, in the fall, the 2027, regional. So

Bob Rivard [00:31:21]:
Men's or women's?

Elena Wells [00:31:22]:
Men's. Yep. And and then we also, as part of that, award, were awarded the NCAA women's volleyball championship for 2026. So we're excited to host that at the Alamodome. Hopefully, set another record for an NCAA championship given the growth of NCAA, women's volleyball and just volleyball in general, but the regional, in 2027. They do those in two year bid cycles. So that was, last year for 2627, kinda years. So we expect another one to come out probably this coming fall, for the next two years.

Bob Rivard [00:31:58]:
So that that pretends a very busy calendar for the Alamodome if we, even just based on what we have. But let's just say we win one more men's or women's regional in that mix. I don't see where we find time to carve out to redo the Alamo Dome.

Jenny Carnes [00:32:14]:
Well, take a step back. The men's regional is at the Frostbank Center, not at the Alamo Dome. Okay. So just the two women's events will be at the at the Dome. You know, I I think the timeline TBD with the city planning, I know they've they've got their, eyes set and priority set, you know, on this first new arena first. So we'll see what that timeline looks like for reimagine Alamo Dome and how that fits into what's already on our calendar. But, well, we're here to sit at the table and make it work with the city because we, we just see this as something that would be spectacular for what we do for the city, but just for downtown. It needs to happen.

Jenny Carnes [00:32:52]:
It it it it I'm I'm so excited to see the city finally thinking big and thinking forward.

Elena Wells [00:32:58]:
Yeah. And when you look at the the Alamodome, and and its location, they host a lot of arena shows. So the Alamodome is busy. I mean, they have something like 400 bookings a year out of three hundred and sixty five days. They're constantly turning over. And a lot of that is arena size shows that if we did have another downtown arena, could shift those and then free up the Alamodome for other larger events, major stadium concert tours and things like that. So I think that they they go hand in hand to be able to do, one, as as an arena and also do the Alamodome so we have the same opportunities.

Bob Rivard [00:33:36]:
Well, you guys were probably in high school, but I remember the nineteen ninety two Olympic festival, US Olympic festival, which

Jenny Carnes [00:33:41]:
Ninety three. I have to correct you.

Bob Rivard [00:33:42]:
Ninety three.

Jenny Carnes [00:33:43]:
Yes. Nineteen ninety three.

Bob Rivard [00:33:45]:
And, that kind of was the official opening of the Alamodome, I think.

Jenny Carnes [00:33:50]:
It wasn't the first event, but it was the first, major sporting event and, still one of the most successful US Olympic festivals, I think, in their history of doing that event. And, really, while San Antonio Sports got started, almost a decade earlier, that's really what put us on the map and helped us propel to where we are today, you know, forty years later.

Bob Rivard [00:34:13]:
I think it it it not only put us on the map everywhere else, Jenny, but it it convinced those of us locally that we could become a sports city in a way we had never been before.

Jenny Carnes [00:34:22]:
A sports destination, but then also what sporting events and and, just more focus on sports, how it can improve the quality of life of our citizens.

Bob Rivard [00:34:34]:
So it's kinda twofold. I think that, what what we haven't talked about, but maybe this is a great place to to end the conversation today, is how much San Antonio Sports does at the community level because this is the glamour and and rightfully so, and we're all very excited. But day to day, week to week, year to year, the stuff you guys are doing at schools and and in in programs for for youth is really remarkable. And, the difference over the last decades of participation by girls is just amazing.

Jenny Carnes [00:35:04]:
Well, thank you for allowing us to end there. You know, the economic impact that Elena talked about has helped us generate more than $1,000,000,000 for San Antonio Sports that we've brought into the community, really over the last ten plus years. But we say over our forty years. We just celebrated our fortieth last year. But when the NCAA moves out on April 8 and and they go away and we may not host again until 2035, San Antonio Sports is here every day putting on free community programs for our underserved youth, to help bring sports development to to them as an opportunity that they may not otherwise have. And then fitness and wellness and and mental health opportunities for our citizens around the the county. So we're here every day trying to get people moving, getting more steps in their day, understanding the benefits of what sport can bring to a young person's life. And then in in the middle of all that, we just introduced a brand new marathon that will take the place of the rock and roll series after sixteen years.

Jenny Carnes [00:36:08]:
So that will be something that San Antonio Sports owns and operates, stays on the same December. And hopefully, that will get, people moving even more in San Antonio.

Elena Wells [00:36:19]:
So Oh,

Bob Rivard [00:36:19]:
that's exciting. Is that gonna start this year?

Jenny Carnes [00:36:21]:
This December. Yeah.

Bob Rivard [00:36:23]:
But back to the youth, you know, I often think of San Antonio sports as being a public health initiative because we've got to break the cycle of adolescent obesity and type two diabetes and the, other afflictions in our city that are holding so many people back and getting, kids active and and recreating and out of away from their screens is just critical to building that muscle memory from, you know, early adolescence forward. And and, your programs do that. So it's worth telling people.

Jenny Carnes [00:36:52]:
And we feel like we've helped move the needle, you know, somewhat over the past decade plus. I think we've got a long way to go, and not just San Antonio Sports, but all of our community partners that work in the space from MetroHealth to Parks and Rec, and we need to continue to advocate for opportunities to just make this a healthier community.

Bob Rivard [00:37:12]:
Well, that's a great place to stop. Jenny Karnes and Elena Wells, congratulations on all your success and what you've done to make this an even better beautiful city, and thanks for coming on to Big City, Small Town.

Jenny Carnes [00:37:24]:
Thank you.

Elena Wells [00:37:24]:
Thanks for

Jenny Carnes [00:37:24]:
having me. Two weeks.

Elena Wells [00:37:26]:
Get ready. The madness is here.

Bob Rivard [00:37:32]:
Please share this episode with friends and colleagues, and do sign up for Monday Musings, our weekly newsletter, at bigcitysmalltown.com. Big City, Small Town is brought to you by Western Urban, building the city our children want to call home, and Geekdom, where startups are born and smart ideas become businesses. Our producer is Corey Eames, video by Erica Rempel, and sound engineering by Alfie de la Garza of Sound Crane Audio. We will see you next week.